tupacperu wrote:Think Peru is ready for Gay Marriage? Think again.
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JoshuS wrote:tupacperu wrote:Think Peru is ready for Gay Marriage? Think again.
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Hmmm, looking at the video it looks more like it was started by the gays,the cops are reacting to that aggression as they're seem to be backing off, the woman rolling down the stairs fell by her own doing. It looks more like a provocation and overreaction by that gay group.
americorps wrote:pishposh and poppycock.
The police attacked without provocation at the kiss-in and the police chose to follow people around Miraflores and harass them as they tried to get coffee and sit and talk.
I find it absurd to blame the victims. You simply have chosen to ignore the entirety of the story and pick and choose what information you want to.
Disappointing way to make a decision about such a heinous event.
americorps wrote:Yes, I realize no one is not ever homophobic, but still hold different standards for gays as they do for straights.
I have heard that same line for 45 years.
Do not get me wrong, I have many dear gay friends, but you have no business asking for rights in this climate because it offends the bigots.
I do not support discrimination, but why do you have to be so obvious....to me is tatamount to asking a black man if he can please try to pass for white so there will be less uncomfort from the racists.
The woman deserved to be raped or should have not made those decisions, so my sympathy is less.....should never be uttered among civilized people, yet you are saying the same thing about the gays being attacked holding a peaceful and lawful demonstration.. You are dead wrong. They should have been protected by the police, even in Peru.
Further, this is the third year of the same event and it has never had trouble before.
your opinion that the police had the right to disrupt a peaceful and lawful assembly of the people because those around them did not agree with them flies in the face of every democracy alive today. They were not disrupting traffic, business nor flow of people. They were not confronting or posing a danger.
but seriously, I am so freaking sick and tired of people telling us how to behave to be accepted better by them and I want to barf.
That means bigots have special rights to relegate those they are bigoted again to second class citizens. If you are uncomfortable with me being Jewish, I should remove my star of david..if you are uncomfortable with me being black..what then? If the people around were uncomfortable with people being from the Selva or the Sierra, how should they change so those around them will better accept them.
Bigotry is NOT a social norm, it is a mental illness and I will always treat it as such.
and if most people don´t want to see people groping and kissing in public then they have a right to feel like that.
If the witnesses were indeed offended then the police had a right to disrupt a demonstration-regardless of the cause.
americorps wrote:You are wrong.
People were not only attacked, but several of the member of MHOL were followed into surrounding cafes and stores afterwards and harassed and physically accosted some more.
The video is limited, edited and presented by the police.
The police rushed the people and started pushing without provecation nor warning, some people were hit, not just pushed.
And in this gays, the gays did nothing wrong.
Yes, bigots are allowed to be bigots, but they are NOT allowed to take away others civil rights.
Interior Minister to meet with MHOL members following police attacks on gays, lesbians
February 15, 2011 by Andean Air Mail & PERUVIAN TIMES · Leave a Comment
Interior Minister Miguel Hidalgo will meet Wednesday with representatives from the Homosexual Movement in Lima (MHOL), following police attacks on gay and lesbians activits last Saturday.
The meeting is intended to inform MHOL of the actions the ministry is taking following charges levied at Peru’s National Police of excessive force, state news agency Andina reported.
“The Interior [Ministry] and National Police are clear and firm in their respect for laws and legislation that regulate their actions, in the framework of respecting the human rights of all people, with no distinction of their creed, social condition or sexual orientation,” Hidalgo said.
A member of MHOL video-taped Peruvian police abuse against a group of 15 gay and lesbian couples kissing in front of Lima’s Cathedral on Saturday during an event called “Kisses against Homophobia.”
“A group of police came up to them and without saying a word began to push the participants in the event to remove them from there and they continued hitting them with sticks and shields in the Plaza de Armas and its surroundings, including chasing them into stores, cafes and an art gallery,” an MHOL member reported to daily La Republica.
The MHOL members were heard protesting in the video saying, “I’m not a criminal, I’m just homosexual.”
Lima’s mayor, Susana Villarán, criticized the police aggression and announced that a bylaw will be issued against discrimination of sexual orientation. City security personnel will also receive training in civil and human rights.
However, Villarán also reminded the public that the city’s main square is off limits to all protests or activist events. “Men, women, people with non-heterosexual orientation can express their affection but always with respect to public opinion and to restricted spaces such as the Plaza de Armas, the Cathedral and the Government Palace.”
americorps wrote:I realize some people think the quest for civil rights should avoid making people uncomfortable. I am not of that opinion.
Throughout history, for civil rights to advance, there has ALWAYS been 2 fronts. The men and women who are quiet and use suits to try to work within the establishment to make change, and the radicals who are willing to defy the establishment for revolution (non violent).
I believe with all my heart, both approaches are needed.
There were those who told the folks who sat at the whites only counter at Woolworth that they would upset too many people and give a bad image to the black rights movement...to me, I see NO difference here.
Alpineprince wrote:They should probably move it to Miraflores where protests,parades,10k's,nude bicycle events and even the walking dead (Zombie) death march is not only tolerated but its great fun for the tourists! I remember when they used to have those girls down in Larco Mar giving everybody a "hug"!
americorps wrote:History is full of well meaning middle class white liberals telling the blacks, gays, hispanics how best to manage their movements....
Serionlv wrote:Is there discrimination for Gays in the USA and Peru?
Well lets see, I am a middle aged, average, white guy who was married 19 years with 3 kids before I divorced and came out. None of the following happened to me when I was "hiding" behind a straight sham of a life. And let me tell you living that lie is really bad and hard.
I was expelled from my church and shunned by all my so called friends there.
I was almost fired from my job on trumped up charges. (My boss supported the constitutional change to make marriage between a man and a woman in Nevada.)
I was never promoted again.
Best friends drifted away in a matter of months.
My ex told my kids I had AIDS (a lie!) and not to touch anything at my place. I wondered why they were avoiding me.
My parents have avoided meeting my partner of ten years because its too "uncomfortable".
I live HERE because my partner can't get a visa to live and work in the USA (even if we marry).
If he dies I am at the mercy of his family if I want to sell my apartment since he owns 50% and I will not inherit.
My faithfully religious daughter refuses me to see my grandkids and the law in her state does not support grandparents rights.
I have been yelled at, spit at, and threatened when out as a couple (NOT KISSING)
I have had to defend myself with a tire iron when attacked by a kid with a bat in San Diego.
My partner is not on my insurance.
My partner gets none of my social security benefits (even if we marry)
I limit outward displays of affection (like touching a hand or a quick kiss) in many areas out of fear.
I have been told to my face on many occasions that my relationship is not as valid as a heterosexual one, that I have chosen to be gay, that I can change, that my love is really just a sexual attraction. (For some reason straight people think they know all about what it means to be gay, and that I have no clue. Well I KNOW what I know is true because I live it)
MANY gay and lesbian friends here in Peru know they will never be promoted and could be fired if known to be gay.
Men with kids fear if they leave their wives they will never see their kids.
I have seen 15 year-old's tossed into the streets by families (where they are likely to be preyed upon by perverts)
Neighbors have requested gay couples keep all blinds drawn so no one sees them living as a couple (it might ruin the kids! AND THEY WERE NOT BEING SEXUAL)
The list can go on...
Laws are good and all, but we all know there is still discrimination for racial minorities, women and others. Having the laws make you feel acknowledged and provide a recourse. But in actuality you do not feel better when something happens. You still feel hurt and lost. You ask yourself: Why do they hate me so? They don't even know me? Why can't I just live my life and pursue happiness my way, and they theirs?
I can't speak for other minorities. I can't compare, or measure, one minorities rights over another.
I can tell you many straight people are ignorant of what it is like to be gay.
And there is NOT yet equality under the law anywhere in the United States.
by the same token many of the above things have happened to hetero people too...that doesn´t excuse it or make any less bad, but it isn´t only confined to gays
Comet wrote:.... and don´t you think that religious people are the most hypocritical of all? If your "Jesus" had been real and came back to earth , I think the last thing he would be is a christian..I think the worst times and places for any minority have always been and will always be in the most religious states be they christian , muslim or whatever.
Serionlv wrote:by the same token many of the above things have happened to hetero people too...that doesn´t excuse it or make any less bad, but it isn´t only confined to gays
You are correct. These things do happen to heterosexual people too, but not for being GAY. Maybe the color of their skin, religious belief, or age. I have had other experiences where I suspect my age, religion or other factors have caused me discrimination of some type. I did not include those experiences.
These are things that I would NOT have experienced in my life if I were straight.
I am not saying one type of discrimination is worse than another. Its clearly wrong in all circumstances, and worse when it threatens life or health.
Just trying to share how my sexual orientation has complicated my life so that people understand why we are pursuing change. Why some of us refuse to "keep a low profile" no matter the consequences. Please remember I have no regrets about living openly and honestly. Even if I must face some discomfort and fear in my life.
JoshuS wrote:Comet wrote:.... and don´t you think that religious people are the most hypocritical of all? If your "Jesus" had been real and came back to earth , I think the last thing he would be is a christian..I think the worst times and places for any minority have always been and will always be in the most religious states be they christian , muslim or whatever.
A good observation, religion has always been a way to divide, brainwash and maintain control among human beings, my experience has been that usually those who call themselves very religious be it whatever, put your favorite religion name in there, are the most hypocritical, as seen here in this video and leads to believe some people are more righteous and deserving than others (chosen), when in fact the opposite is true. Religion is always in the control business, something people don't understand. It's a guilt producing control business. And if you have heaven as a place where you're rewarded for your goodness, and hell as a place where you're punished for your evil, then you sort of have control over the population. The church for example doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grownups, that's why we talk about being born again, when you're born again you're still a child...people don't need to be born again, they need to grow up, they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world.