It seems we're doomed....again

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Remigius
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It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:34 am

[quote]Encuesta CPI: Humala 21,2%, Keiko 19%, Toledo 18,6% y PPK 16,1%[/quote]

http://elcomercio.pe/politica/733682/no ... -y-ppk-161

Really, make sure not too have to many savings on your Peruvian bank account. This may get potentially nasty.
Last edited by Remigius on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby El Tunche » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:08 am

Humala is not going to win , rest assure :wink:


But get your plane ticket just in case , i mean, this is Peru , "impossible is nothing" :lol:
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Alpineprince » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:37 pm

El Tunche wrote:Humala is not going to win , rest assure :wink:


But get your plane ticket just in case , i mean, this is Peru , "impossible is nothing" :lol:

Three "lefts" make a right.
One "left" and 4 "rights" still point left!
So, where is everbody thinking? Can't go back to the US or Europe, I'm thinking Uruguay!
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Arroz con Pollo » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:53 pm

Not a joke. If Humala wins my days in Lima are over. :( :( :( :( :(
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby JoshuS » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:41 pm

Remigius wrote:
Encuesta CPI: Humala 21,2%, Keiko 19%, Toledo 18,6% y PPK 16,1%


http://elcomercio.pe/politica/733682/no ... -y-ppk-161

Really, make sure not to have to many savings on your Peruvian bank account. This may get potentially nasty.


I guess it's a matter of perspective, isn't it? From an expat point of view: ooops! But from the perspective of the peruvian people, the majority in poverty, it might be a blessing in disguise.
But I highly doubt Humala stands a chance, agencies like USAID, NED and NGOs, presently at work, will make sure of that, no matter what the polls say, let's not forget Peru was and still is, in spite of its economic diversification, a US vassal first and foremost. Even if he steals the presidency, it's very likely an unexpected psy-ops or covert event will take place that would topple him or discredit him enough to impeach him, if he doesn't get assassinated first. My wife's connections have told her that Roman, the would be VP under PPK was shuffled first as a possible candidate to the presidency by Washington, friends of my wife close to Roman revealed he had been invited about a year ago or so to Washington to pass the screening, but I guess they felt PPK stands more of a chance to see after US interests in Peru. We'll see what happens.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby bmike1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:44 pm

I did a quick googling of Humala but lets ask the locals..... opinions?

After reading a little about him I thought, 'lovely..... and just before I come!' should I be worried? If so, why?
:-)~mike~(-:
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby mahou123 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:07 pm

It's encouraging to see that Peruvian people seem to be smarter than most media commentators and turn their backs on "junk politics". Two candidates that have put together some credible reform programmes are in front. It would be ideal if Humala and Fujimori go to the second round indeed, would mean it's very likely that Fujimori wins and real change is coming up.

For people not familiar with Peruvian affairs: there is no need to panic. Even if Humala wins (and that is very unlikely), Peruvian nationalism he represents will not present any danger to foreigners.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby happyfeet1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Anyone know where to get info about the platform/philosophies of each candidate. I only have a general sense of who is on left/right/center. Peruviantimes articles are completely useless to me because they just tell who is leading polls rather than why or what each candidate wants to do. Wikipedia isnt of much help either. It would be nice just to see a summary or something so I understand whats going on. Also, who would win in a runoffs. ex. Keiko vs Humala, Toledo vs. Humala, Toledo vs Keiko?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby mahou123 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:41 pm

happyfeet1 wrote:Anyone know where to get info about the platform/philosophies of each candidate. I only have a general sense of who is on left/right/center. Peruviantimes articles are completely useless to me because they just tell who is leading polls rather than why or what each candidate wants to do. Wikipedia isnt of much help either. It would be nice just to see a summary or something so I understand whats going on. Also, who would win in a runoffs. ex. Keiko vs Humala, Toledo vs. Humala, Toledo vs Keiko?


You can check websites of respective parties: Partido Nacionalista Peruano, Fuerza 2011, Peru Posible and so on.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby americorps » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:42 pm

IF Humala is elected, it would spell the same sort of disaster for the Peruvian people that Chavez and brought to the Venezuelans and Evo to the Bolivians.

With Chavez in power, the GDP has dropped significantly, income has gone down and crime has risen in Venezuela to the point that it is one of the top crime spots in the world. In fact, one is more likely to be a victim of gun violence in VZ than they are in Afghanistan.

Poverty has risen in both VZ and Bolivia. Chavez released some figures that said poverty went from 70% to only 28% but those numbers were later shown by his own government to be misleading as they significantly changed the definition of poverty. Poverty did drop under his regime at first, but is now rising rapidly again.

There are some estimates that VZ will actually be in bankruptcy in 15-20 years at this present rate because when they kicked out all the foreign devil companies, they no longer have the capacity to maintain the technology and equipment required to continue to process their oil. Already they have closed down 2 refineries due to lack of parts and technicians to maintain them.

Civil unrest in Bolivia has increased quite a bit in Bolivia and unrest comes not only from the wealthy, but from many indigenous populations and the poor who have not realized the social promises Evo said he would deliver.

Peru will suffer quite a bit right away because many companies will move their Latin American headquarters to Chile or Brazil or maybe Argentina in anticipation of state taking away their companies and property. That will loose many well paying jobs and lower the tax base.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby El Tunche » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:00 pm

It seems that peruvians have suicidal tendencies , Humala is a peruvian Chavez, his father wants to kill all the foreigners and the gays , his brother hijacked a police building and killed police officers, He is taking to congress people who had/have ties with the Shining Path and the MRTA , etc ,etc , etc


Is really sad, but if Peru becomes a Venezuela or a Cuba , peruvians cant say a thing , they deserved it :?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby happyfeet1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 am

mahou123 wrote:Two candidates that have put together some credible reform programmes are in front.


Such as?...I understand Humala wants to take the country in a different direction but I don't know how to distinguish the other 4 candidates except Fujimori wants to reinstate the death penalty and will probably try to pardon her father. I don't read El Comercio everyday or anything so maybe I am not informed. The only thing I ever see on the internet or tv is empty promises like ending extreme poverty in 10 years, creating 3 million jobs, reducing crime, etc. without any real discussion on how they are going to do it. And then of course the television commercials where they re-promise to to carry out all their campaign promises as if I needed that extra assurance. This along with the negative things the candidates have done in their past seems to be the extent of the conversation. Then again there is no time to talk about policy. Wouldn't want to take away from the things voters really care about: who can sing and dance the best, cook the best cheviche, tell the best jokes, etc.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby mahou123 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:14 am

happyfeet1 wrote:
mahou123 wrote:Two candidates that have put together some credible reform programmes are in front.


Such as?...I understand Humala wants to take the country in a different direction but I don't know how to distinguish the other 4 candidates except Fujimori wants to reinstate the death penalty and will probably try to pardon her father. I don't read El Comercio everyday or anything so maybe I am not informed. The only thing I ever see on the internet or tv is empty promises like ending extreme poverty in 10 years, creating 3 million jobs, reducing crime, etc. without any real discussion on how they are going to do it. And then of course the television commercials where they re-promise to to carry out all their campaign promises as if I needed that extra assurance. This along with the negative things the candidates have done in their past seems to be the extent of the conversation. Then again there is no time to talk about policy. Wouldn't want to take away from the things voters really care about: who can sing and dance the best, cook the best cheviche, tell the best jokes, etc.


To make things better, they all need to stabilise food prices, get crime under control and fight corruption. This will anyway require some heavy handed measures, which are more likely to be based on either nationalistic ideology, or policies like those implemented by Fujimori in 90ies. I personally think that Humala project is designed to take the protest vote and discredit the nationalist movement, someone pays for that. But this time he can go through to the second round with Keiko, and that would be very interesting to see. All other candidates promise the same corrupt APRA-style government, only under different name. It's good that this time around there are three of those with similar ratings (Toledo, Castaneda and Kuczynski), so all three can lose in the first round. Although, there is a likely scenario of particularly negative PR attacks on both Humala and Fujimori closer to election, in order to get Toledo through, which, if successful, might see him elected in style of Garcia five years ago ("lesser of two evils"). Which is kind of funny, considering that around 2004 Toledo government had around 8% approval rate. Will be interesting to see what he has to say in the debates.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:06 am

Many make Humala the Boogey-man candidate. Personal I would perfer Humala to the past corrupt established parties.
-Kieko, her father would be running things
-Toledo, history of scandals

Americans and foreigners get spooked by socialist candidates, nothing wrong with a mix of socilaism with capitalism. Many countries in SA have socialist presidents and maintain stable economies.

Brazil - Wilma Rousseff (previous President Lula De Silva)
- President Obama cast Brazil as an example of the kind of flourishing democracy he hopes can emerge in the Arab world

Ecuador - Rafeal Correa (Yale Educated)
Argentina Cristina Kirchner (Husband was former President)
Hugo Chavez - recently with the rebound of oil prices Venezuela is looking up.
Daniel Ortega - Nicaragua
Evo Morales - Bolivia
Michelle Bachelet Ex-president Chile (left the economy in great shape, Chile now has a conservative president Pinera).


People are tired of the business as usual type of candidates and they want real reform. The US Policies of the past in SA had run many countries into poverty. People want change.

Humala cannot be a dictator without approval of congress, so I see no sudden take-over into a dictatorship.
Humala is a Nationalist, which means country first,
unlike the current US Gov't which takes our tax dollars and spends them in the international arena (war on drugs, military aid to arab dictators, unnecessary wars etc....), but we have yet to hear cuts in these types programs, but there is much talk about cutting domestic program.

I do not think much of a country that does not watch-out for the well being of it's citizens.

My hopes are that Humala wins and shakes up things, crime, corruption, jobs for the poor etc...

Humala can bring about a gov't much like Brazil, Argentina etc....

He is not the Boogie-Man our gov't makes him out to be.

Even Chavez I admit is a little extreme in his views of a socialist country (but it take and opposite counterwieght to bring balance). After years of the US pillaging SA and empty promises, it is time for a new type of gov't in Peru.

Turn off the TV and go into the streets to find what the people of Peru really want. TV are own by capitalist, so they promote capitalistic ideas. The polls are the voice of the people in the streets.

side note: The big hub-bub in Wisconsin (union busting): I blame the voter who voted in pro-business candidate, voting against Obama's policies really amounted to voting against their own interest.

Hopefully Peruvians will vote their pockets, because very little of the economic boom in Peru is going to the masses. As I mentioned many times, Peru's economic boom is due to ez credit, the illusion that citizens have more money in their pocket, but in reality are laden with credit card debt (100% interest),- illusion of a better life. Bring on change.

Viva Humala!!!!! (hehe)
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:23 am

With Chavez in power, the GDP has dropped significantly, income has gone down and crime has risen in Venezuela to the point that it is one of the top crime spots in the world. In fact, one is more likely to be a victim of gun violence in VZ than they are in Afghanistan.



With the boom in Peru crime has gone up significantly, so it is a catch 22.
I have relatives in Chiclayo who are afraid to step into the streets.

As for the GDP in Venezuela going down, it was due to drop in oil prices, The Venezuelan economy is dependent on oil. Now that oil prices are $100+ Venezuela is on the rebound,


I admit that violence is up in VZ, but the US is in the top 10 on the list of gun violence, if we want to tell the truth.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g ... s-firearms
Last edited by tupacperu on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby americorps » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:27 am

I wonder if you would be singing a different tune if his family were calling for murdering black people instead of murdering gays?

I wonder why you ignore that his family and his party have called for expelling all foreigners?

I wonder how you can say he is scandal free as he has been involved in numerous scandals?

I wonder why you do not mention that PKK and even though she is not running, Mecha are both without any significant scandal as well and ONLY mention that for Humala (Though I admit Mecha was with Apra and that was scandal enough)

I wonder why you called NOT business as usual and yet one week he was promising gays civil and marriage rights and the next day promising the Catholic church that he will run with traditional conservative Catholic values?

I wonder why you did not mention that his party reflects the principles of his father´s etnocacerismo
doctrine that, while indigenous and worker and low income friendly, has clear fascist overtones?

How do you choose which facts you use to support your candidate and which facts you leave out?

I agree that the US is a contender of gun violence, but still does not come anywhere near meeting the level of VZ. Further, the US gun violence problem has nothing to do with Humala being President of Peru.

And finally, I repeat, the production capabilities of oil are being diminished every day in VZ, and no major activity to fix the problem..it will bite the country in the behind very very hard...but only after Chavez retires. He is screwing his country royaly and knows it.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:35 am

americorps wrote:I wonder if you would be singing a different tune if his family were calling for murdering black people instead of murdering gays?

I wonder why you ignore that his family and his party have called for expelling all foreigners?

I wonder how you can say he is scandal free as he has been involved in numerous scandals?

I wonder why you do not mention that PKK and even though she is not running, Mecha are both without any significant scandal as well and ONLY mention that for Humala (Though I admit Mecha was with Apra and that was scandal enough)

I wonder why you called NOT business as usual and yet one week he was promising gays civil and marriage rights and the next day promising the Catholic church that he will run with traditional conservative Catholic values?

I wonder why you did not mention that his party reflects the principles of his father´s etnocacerismo
doctrine that, while indigenous and worker and low income friendly, has clear fascist overtones?

How do you choose which facts you use to support your candidate and which facts you leave out?

I agree that the US is a contender of gun violence, but still does not come anywhere near meeting the level of VZ. Further, the US gun violence problem has nothing to do with Humala being President of Peru.

And finally, I repeat, the production capabilities of oil are being diminished every day in VZ, and no major activity to fix the problem..it will bite the country in the behind very very hard...but only after Chavez retires. He is screwing his country royaly and knows it.



Again Americorp, you quoted it: People get the gov't they deserve.
The will of the majority prevails, not just special interest like gays and blacks

I do not look at gov't to promote gay of black causes, I consider govt to be nuetral and carry-out the will of the voters/people. The Arab world has awaken to that quote" People get the gov't they deserve.

Let the people's voices speak "that is democrarcy".
Blacks, Gays etc.... special interest groups. what is good for one is not always good for all.
You have your cause, but I do not hear you speaking up about Arab countries who have a gov't policy and laws to murder gays and to eliminate them from society, these are atrocities which are carried out by gov'y mandate. Do not make Chavez and Humala the Boogey-men. The real Boogey man is the US gov't which is increasingly losing influence in these countries (SA).

PPK - Millionaire : potential for corruption. Peruvian's want to be represented by those who can relate to their plight. That is why Flores lost in 2006, candidate of the rich.
Last edited by tupacperu on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby americorps » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:42 am

Human rights is not a special interest.

Not being murdered is NOT a decision of the majority of voters.

The fact that you would even suggest that says all I need to know.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:49 am

exactly!!! Human Rights (internationally) not just for Gays and blacks, for children women and all citizens.


Let's talk about past Peruvian presidents and political figures.

Massacre: Toledo, Garcia, Fujimori, Meche (Bagua) : Peru needs change

agree that the US is a contender of gun violence


US is in the top 10, contender????

I repeat, the production capabilities of oil are being diminished every day in VZ
.
As long as the US has a need for oil Venezuela will not go bust. There has been recent development which you may not be aware, VZ has discovered oil to carry them well into the future.

Please turn-off your TV and stay informed
Published: 01/24/10, 11:08 AM

USGS: Venezuela Oil Field Dwarfs Saudi Arabia Reserves
by Hana Levi Julian
Follow Israel news
.
Scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey announced Friday that approximately 513 billion barrels of “technically recoverable” oil were found in the Orinoco belt region of Venezuela – twice as much as previously believed.



Natural Gas
Eni Announces Giant Gas Discovery Offshore Venezuela
Saturday, October 17, 2009

Eni made a world class gas discovery at its Perla field, in the shallow water of the Venezuelan offshore, successfully drilling an explorative well in the Perla field, located in the Cardon IV block, in the Gulf of Venezuela.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby sbaustin » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:49 am

If you can read Spanish this may help you in your decision to support or not support the election of a candidate.

http://www.peruescoge.org/
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:44 am

Should we have a Humala vs Fujimori second round, then with a lot of pain in my heart I'd go for Keiko. History has shown many times how devastating governments with equal mindsets as Humala can be for a country. PPK and Peru Posible have not been very smart in this campaign. Too much mudslinging and Humala just kept quiet; wisely.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Alpineprince » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:55 am

sbaustin wrote:If you can read Spanish this may help you in your decision to support or not support the election of a candidate.

http://www.peruescoge.org/

Nice site, thanks.I translated it before taking the poll and the results are quite like I imagined.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby sbaustin » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:56 am

Which candidate will make the dollar stronger?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby americorps » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:56 am

Again, you can dismiss his desire to murder gays as insiginficant, that tells me all I need to know.

Further, you can pretend that he himself has not been involved in human rights abuses, but that would be not true as many poor famers accused humala of human rights abuses.

But you are right, if you simply ignore the facts and work off his sound bites, then you have a point.

However, I feel no choice but to be more thoughtful and frank when considering the evidence.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby sbaustin » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:34 am

Alpineprince wrote:
sbaustin wrote:If you can read Spanish this may help you in your decision to support or not support the election of a candidate.

http://www.peruescoge.org/

Nice site, thanks.I translated it before taking the poll and the results are quite like I imagined.


In all honesty I got that link from mr remigius (kudos for that find). My results were exactly as I expected.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby gerard » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:26 pm

Just done the survey also and got exactly the results I expected, but was worried by some of the questions if they're based on actual campaign proposals. Why, for example, would we want to increase military spending and reintroduce obligatory service? Is someone planning a war?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:50 pm

sbaustin wrote:Which candidate will make the dollar stronger?


That's a no-brainer - Humala!!

Vote your pockets, that's what politicians do all over the world.
None have your interest at hand.

Beside, the boom in Peru is due to money flowing in from foreign investors , especially Chile, and flowing back out as profit. Credit is replacing salary increases. The illusion of being middle class to many Peruvians.
Last edited by tupacperu on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:52 pm

americorps wrote:Again, you can dismiss his desire to murder gays as insiginficant, that tells me all I need to know.

Further, you can pretend that he himself has not been involved in human rights abuses, but that would be not true as many poor famers accused humala of human rights abuses.

But you are right, if you simply ignore the facts and work off his sound bites, then you have a point.

However, I feel no choice but to be more thoughtful and frank when considering the evidence.


Americorp - evidence that Chavez is murdering gays please?. Let's not be so passionate.

Just the facts? please. In your view Chavez has cornered the market on killing gays. :-).
Last edited by tupacperu on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:55 pm

gerard wrote:Just done the survey also and got exactly the results I expected, but was worried by some of the questions if they're based on actual campaign proposals. Why, for example, would we want to increase military spending and reintroduce obligatory service? Is someone planning a war?



That is what Peruvians are saying about Chile. They have increased defense spending in a time of peace.
I would guess that Peru lost a war to Chile already and there is an ongoing border dispute with the Hague.
Every reason to increase defense spending.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:07 pm

tupacperu wrote:That is what Peruvians are saying about Chile. They have increased defense spending in a time of peace.


With Humala actively fishing for the presidency since 2006, Chile should be more worried about Peru than vice versa. If I were Chile, I would invest even more in defense. I bet they haven't forgot about the trick Velasco almost pulled.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby sbaustin » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:56 pm

tupacperu wrote:Vote your pockets, that's what politicians do all over the world.
None have your interest at hand.


Very true and the larger problem with government is that it is used by people to increase their own power/wealth and is a great argument for smaller, less intrusive government in general.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby alan » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:53 pm

americorps wrote:Again, you can dismiss his desire to murder gays as insiginficant, that tells me all I need to know.
.


In fact, Ollanta Humala did not express this sentiment, but his parents did:

http://peru21.pe/noticia/13823/madre-ol ... mosexuales
http://elcomercio.pe/politica/459877/no ... no-postula
Remigius
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:16 pm

Alan wrote:
americorps wrote:Again, you can dismiss his desire to murder gays as insiginficant, that tells me all I need to know.
.


In fact, Ollanta Humala did not express this sentiment, but his parents did:

http://peru21.pe/noticia/13823/madre-ol ... mosexuales
http://elcomercio.pe/politica/459877/no ... no-postula


I bet he was raised with it though. Ollanta 2011 is not less radical than he was in 2006, despite the smile and the suite.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Kelly » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:44 pm

tupacperu wrote:
sbaustin wrote:Which candidate will make the dollar stronger?


That's a no-brainer - Humala!!



"Peru's sol fell to a three-month low of 2.813 per dollar on Monday as traders worried Humala might unwind market-friendly policies" - http://su.pr/6UGquk

so far, so good... :roll:
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby sbaustin » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:31 am

Kelly wrote:
tupacperu wrote:
sbaustin wrote:Which candidate will make the dollar stronger?


That's a no-brainer - Humala!!



"Peru's sol fell to a three-month low of 2.813 per dollar on Monday as traders worried Humala might unwind market-friendly policies" - http://su.pr/6UGquk

so far, so good... :roll:


I won't say I'd be unhappy with a weaker sol, however I sure don't want to see Peru turned into some government wasteland like Venezuela.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:44 pm

sbaustin wrote:
Kelly wrote:
tupacperu wrote:
sbaustin wrote:Which candidate will make the dollar stronger?


That's a no-brainer - Humala!!



"Peru's sol fell to a three-month low of 2.813 per dollar on Monday as traders worried Humala might unwind market-friendly policies" - http://su.pr/6UGquk

so far, so good... :roll:


I won't say I'd be unhappy with a weaker sol, however I sure don't want to see Peru turned into some government wasteland like Venezuela.


There is Low Poverty and High literacy in Venezuela. I would not mind Peru moving into that direction.
Too many listen to the propaganda that comes from the press (capitalist owned). So far no Coup in Venezuela because the majority rule is Democracy :-). The only people against Venezuelan Gov't are the rich and middle class, they cannot get too rich off the backs of the poor.

Humala: We do not have to live with the sins of our father's , we are given free will to choose. Guilty by association does not always hold up. HUmala is a Nationalist, believes in the interest of Peru over the interest of foreign investors raping the economy.

HAs anyone one considered the long term affects of Peru no reaching it's economic growth figures year after year? The current fall of BVL is an indicator that if investors do not gett a return on investment they will pull out and Peru will not have a leg to stand on. Peru's Growth is built on foreign investment and internal demand based on credit and not a solid internal economic model. Peru is mortgaging it future to capitalist and foreign investment, when the global recovering is in full swing investors will take theri profits elsewhere. Other economies are down currently, a recover could spell problems for the Peruvian economy.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby El Tunche » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:01 pm

Yeah , low poverty in Venezuela :lol: , so people over there shoot each other just for fun. Venezuela being one of the countries with the highest murders rate per capita in the WORLD .

Sounds good :D
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:07 pm

tupacperu wrote: So far no Coup in Venezuela because the majority rule is Democracy :-).

I wonder what Chavez was doing during the 47 hours he was ousted from office in 2002?

The current fall of BVL is an indicator that if investors do not gett a return on investment they will pull out and Peru will not have a leg to stand on.


:roll: I really wonder where the investors got this strange idea from that Humala won't provide them with something worth to invest in?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby renodante » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:31 pm

" his father wants to kill all the foreigners" That's an effective way to end up with an aircraft carrier parked on the shore of one's country.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby renodante » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:41 pm

tupacperu wrote:Many make Humala the Boogey-man candidate. Personal I would perfer Humala to the past corrupt established parties.
-Kieko, her father would be running things
-Toledo, history of scandals
Viva Humala!!!!! (hehe)


Oh don't worry, Humala will prove to be as corrupt as any of his predecessors.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby renodante » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:50 pm

[quote="tupacperuAgain Americorp, you quoted it: People get the gov't they deserve.
The will of the majority prevails, not just special interest like gays and blacks
I do not look at gov't to promote gay of black causes, I consider govt to be nuetral and carry-out the will of the voters/people. The Arab world has awaken to that quote" People get the gov't they deserve.
[/quote]

Wow. So I guess the Jim Crow laws were fair and square to you? I mean, after all, the majority wanted them in place. We shouldn't have looked for the government to end them, should have waited for the South to come around on it's own I guess? yeah, wow.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby happyfeet1 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:26 am

Everytime a leftist tries to gain power from a more conservative government in Latin America, the other party brings out the Chavez boogyman because it is so effective in playing on our emotions. As an example, the exact same thing happened in El Salvador's election in 2009 when the leftist party tried to gain power for the 1st time since their democracy. The leftist party was called communist, Chavista, anti-US, etc. What happened? The leftist candidate won. Turns out he is fairly popular, didn't end capitalism & is getting along fine with the US. Obama even paid the country a visit a couple weeks ago.

There are a host of other left of center presidents in Latin America. Chavez is on the far left of the list. He is more authoritarian than most & also has less opposition in government to obstruct his policies. Also note he has a personal grudge against the US (their at least tacit support of the 2002 coup) which explains a lot of the anti-US rhetoric & poor relations the countries have had in recent years. Just because Chavez is a leftist president doesn't mean Humala is going to be the same as Chavez. Humala certainly doesn't seem as extreme or authoritarian to me in the things I've heard him say/write. He also won't have the majority support of Congress & other parts of government to ram through his agenda. Whatever your politics, if he wins its not the end of the world.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Kelly » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:13 am

That seems to be ignoring the fact that Humala was quite cozy with Chavez during the last elections, and that Chavez was quite vocally (if not financially) supportive of Humala. Humala claims now that it was all a big misunderstanding, that he was never that tight with Chavez, and is taking a much more centrist stance.

He seems to be blowing with whichever wind will get him elected - like aligning with a party that supports legalized abortion and gay rights, then cozying up to the church and claiming to be a "conservative Catholic".

I call shenanigans.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby MarcoPE » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:43 am

Kelly wrote:He seems to be blowing with whichever wind will get him elected - like aligning with a party that supports legalized abortion and gay rights, then cozying up to the church and claiming to be a "conservative Catholic".

I call shenanigans.



Ohhh, I just call him a politician :roll:
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby JoshuS » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:59 am

happyfeet1 wrote: Also note he has a personal grudge against the US (their at least tacit support of the 2002 coup) which explains a lot of the anti-US rhetoric & poor relations the countries have had in recent years.


Chavez doesn't blow hot air when he takes a stand against US predatory, rapacious and vicious foreign policies, he talks from a factual historical point of view as far as all the damage the US has done to South America, not to mention the world. Chavez just happens to be more vocal about it ever since the US coup against him, whether we like it or not it is the truth. People need to know the real history and not the propaganda and sound bites portrayed by corporate media which apparently all seem to repeat like parrots. Here's an interesting documentary which explains US foreign policy against LA, US's "backyard", just the tip of the iceberg.
Pay close attention to the interview with CIA chief for LA 1981-1984, Duane Carridge, his comments are more than revealing about the above.

The War on Democracy

I'd love to see Humala win, just as a contrarian alternative, but like I said before I doubt he'd make it, the US would make sure that doesn't happen.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Remigius » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 am

Kelly wrote:That seems to be ignoring the fact that Humala was quite cozy with Chavez during the last elections, and that Chavez was quite vocally (if not financially) supportive of Humala. Humala claims now that it was all a big misunderstanding, that he was never that tight with Chavez, and is taking a much more centrist stance.


What I read in Peru21 is that he spent about 6.000.000 on his campaign, which is double the amount he told the JNE. Obviously he found someone very generous. When Toledo announced he was going to invest 4 million in his campaign he received a lot of criticism, but Humala, a simple Lieutenant Colonel of the army, apparently knows better where the cash is.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:23 pm

happyfeet1 wrote:Everytime a leftist tries to gain power from a more conservative government in Latin America, the other party brings out the Chavez boogyman because it is so effective in playing on our emotions. As an example, the exact same thing happened in El Salvador's election in 2009 when the leftist party tried to gain power for the 1st time since their democracy. The leftist party was called communist, Chavista, anti-US, etc. What happened? The leftist candidate won. Turns out he is fairly popular, didn't end capitalism & is getting along fine with the US. Obama even paid the country a visit a couple weeks ago.

There are a host of other left of center presidents in Latin America. Chavez is on the far left of the list. He is more authoritarian than most & also has less opposition in government to obstruct his policies. Also note he has a personal grudge against the US (their at least tacit support of the 2002 coup) which explains a lot of the anti-US rhetoric & poor relations the countries have had in recent years. Just because Chavez is a leftist president doesn't mean Humala is going to be the same as Chavez. Humala certainly doesn't seem as extreme or authoritarian to me in the things I've heard him say/write. He also won't have the majority support of Congress & other parts of government to ram through his agenda. Whatever your politics, if he wins its not the end of the world.


Thanks you HappyFeet :-)
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby tupacperu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:28 pm

Kelly wrote:That seems to be ignoring the fact that Humala was quite cozy with Chavez during the last elections, and that Chavez was quite vocally (if not financially) supportive of Humala. Humala claims now that it was all a big misunderstanding, that he was never that tight with Chavez, and is taking a much more centrist stance.

He seems to be blowing with whichever wind will get him elected - like aligning with a party that supports legalized abortion and gay rights, then cozying up to the church and claiming to be a "conservative Catholic".

I call shenanigans.


Any many of the other candidates are associated with Drug-lords and corruption. I remember in 2006, the candidate were told to foreign Gov't from meddling in Peruvian presidential race, but yet recently in Wiki-Leaks you find that many sought the help of the USA (especially representatives of Toledo). Also Garcia stated recently that he would circumvent democracy if Humala won. I would not call Peruvian Politicians a just bunch.
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby Kelly » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:00 pm

Happyfeet made a specific comment about Humala, I responded to that. What's it got to do with any of the rest of the candidates?
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Re: It seems we're doomed....again

Postby mahou123 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:20 pm

Humala is not really a "leftist" as in traditional social-democratic sense, as his PNP party ideology is not focused on any particular social class (not a "Labor" party) or has much reference to Marxist philosophy. They moved on from "left-right" division, considering it the thing of the past.

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