well that was easy. just dismiss it? what i said is factual. There are over a million arabs in israel, check. they are full citizens, check. they serve in the military, the knesset, court system, school system, media, etc, check. those things aren't up for debate, they are factual, check them out (not on an anti israel youtube video, or blog, etc, go to a third party source, and you'll see it's true.) i used to be anti israel too, until i went beyond the propaganda of both sides and actually learned a little about it. israel as a state is not saintly by any stretch, no nation state is. however, it's not guilty of half the crap propagandists level against it. you talk about propaganda, but how deeply do you dig into your sources to see if it's not propaganda? For a prime example, it's hilariously ironic that you have a clip from Russia Today, which is a state-owned Kremlin backed propaganda channel that you can always rely on for biased gloom and doom reports about the U.S, its allies, and especially Israel: http://www.cjr.org/feature/what_is_russ
Sure, but what your Zionist sources won't tell you is that a little over a million Palestinians live in Israel as “Israeli citizens,” but despite their status as citizens, they are subject to systematic discrimination. Many are prohibited from living in the villages and homes from which they were violently expelled, and their property has been confiscated for Jewish-only uses, more than half a million acres were expropriated from their owners. So, Israeli law designates these internal refugees as “present absentees". I'm not anti-Israel, I'm anti-Zionism and the Zionist machine that rule Israel. As for RT, I don't kill the messenger, I check the message, the source, whether is true or not and if presented within a sound and real context. Fact is, US corporate media is known for its lies and deception, only the ignorant, and foolish fall for their canned propaganda, including the link you attached. It's interesting to me, how you don't even mention the Palestinians' suffering at the hands of Israel apartheid state, and that's the point, Israel PR campaign has succeeded in keep Palestinians as "invisible", non-persons, and disposable. Fortunately, more and more people are waking up to this reality and standing up to it.
Redodante wrote: Being that the things I list above are true, "apartheid state" is a ridiculous claim. Did apartheid era white south africans let blacks teach their kids? Serve on courts, etc etc? The Israeli ambassador to Finland was Arab. Would you have a person from the group you're trying to ethnically cleanse represent your country abroad? Gaza/West Bank are the result of wars of aggression against Israel, not the other way around. Now, as far as settlements go, I don't support them, at all, and is one of several things that sucks about Israel. But, many Israelis also do not agree with the settlements. moving on...
What makes a state an apartheid state? Its laws. And these laws at the core, are just there to promote "Israel for the Jews and Jews only." An example of that is for example, that Israeli courts, guided by the Supreme Court, have consistently decided that discrimination between Arabs and Jews is legitimate based on the founding principles of Israel as a state for the Jewish people; "nationality" is considered a legitimate basis for discrimination. Even the Goldstone report, which the Zionists have tried hardly to suppress by intimidation and fear tactics, affirms the analysis of Israel as a regime that combines: occupation, colonialism and apartheid. Anybody with some Jewish roots can become an Israeli and live there, which would imply full allegiance to the Jewish( Zionist) state, so what difference does it make whether Avi Ganot (Ambassador) is an Arab of sorts or not (just because he lived in some Arab country prior), as long as he's loyal to the State. A quarter or half Peruvian Jew could do that too. The aggression started with Israel, when the Zionists decided to usurp and land grab little by little Palestine territory, a territory that was inhabited by 96% non-Jews, more or less at the end of 19th century and beginnings of the 20th, mostly Muslims and Christians. What's even more revealing is that these fanatic Zionists whose goal was the creation of a Jewish State, didn't think of the Middle East as first option, they had considered other parts of the world prior, such as South America.
Redodante wrote: "Palestine" which was always nothing but the name of the region, NOT a nation EVER, was controlled by the British at the time of the Palestine Mandate. It was Britain to divide up and do with what it pleased. Before that, it was controlled by the Ottoman Turks, who are not Arabs. Egypt (also not arabs) controlled it for a time. And on and on going back to the Romans, Hebrews etc. What Palestine never was, at any time, was an Arab nation. If you look into accounts of travelers during the time period from around the 1500's up until the early 20's you'll find they describe the region as largely unpopulated, without major infrastructure, with many towns and old cities in ruins, or near ruins. the arab population jumped by more than 400,000 from 1922 to 1946. why? because the zionists were building like crazy, turning desert into arable land, and creating massive infrastructure.
man, turns out the Jews are really bad at ethnic cleansing based on these population stats
It was British land. What are you even talking about here?
The name of a region which didn't belong to Jews, and that doesn't give them the right to usurp it as their divine right either, and it was Anthony Ashley Cooper, a renowned proponent of the Christian Zionist Movement, one of the first to popularize the idea of Palestine being without legitimate children and of being a barren land with little or no inhabitants. Again, more Zionist propaganda. Let's keep in mind that by late 1800's Palestine was a multicultural society with 4% Jews, 10% Christian Palestinians and 86% Muslim Palestinians. And by 1930's Jewish land ownership had increased from about 1% to about 6%, of course this was a process. It was over decades beginning at the start of the 20th century, that Zionists made use of several strategies to accomplish their goal of usurping Palestine, which was not unpopulated as their books try to claim. Financially backed by the Rothschilds, one of their strategies was to encourage Jewish immigration, using deceptive slogans such as: "a land without a people, for people without a land." When in reality Palestine had inhabitants, hence the hatred we see today, fueled by both sides, based also on religious non-sense. They were turned down by the Ottomans, but the resorting to a great power, British eventually agreed, as well as the US to further their cause with this process of taking over Palestine. There were powerful political, geopolitical and money interest behind all this which are not discussed at all in the Zionist version of their story. Another strategy they use was, many times through subterfuge, to buy up land, refusing to allow non-Jews to live or work on the purchased land, they were "redeeming" the land as they call it and it was primarily financed by the Rothschilds , an extremely wealthy banking family. Another tactic they used was violence, yes violence, the Zionists had several Zionist terrorists gangs which were very active against the indigenous population of Palestine(Christian/Muslim Palestinians) prior to their "war of independence" in late 40's, and many of those member gang leaders were to become later Israel Prime Ministers.
Redodante wrote: ok, here's a prime example of checking your sources. do you know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is? It's a fake document. Many people still think it's real, who don't check their sources. What's the source of your quote Joshu? From a copy of an actual document, a press conference? Or was it from an anti-zionist source?
When I searched around for the source of your quote, i can't find it. What I DID find though, is the same quote attributed to Commissioner Israel Koenig. Do you know what this almost always means? It means he didn't say it. If you can find for me the source of his supposed statement, I'd like to see it, I'm open to such things.
"By their deeds, we shall know them". OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist. Then again, it doesn't really matter if they exist or not, their actions is a statement of their true intent.
Redodante wrote: see what i wrote above for how silly the charge of "ethnic cleansing" is against israel. You don't allow the people you're trying to cleanse into your Parliament, court system, and most of all, MILITARY.
This has been refuted in my first paragraph.
Redodante wrote: educate yourself about the 4 wars against israel and the land lost due to those wars. also about how the majority of "palestinian," (an invention adopted in 1967 for political purposes, before that they simply considered themselves arabs) refugees are a result of those wars, NOT because the evil jews kicked them out of their homes at gunpoint.
Some of those aggressions against Israel, sadly, are the result of the hatred accumulated over the years for having started something the Zionists shouldn't have started in the first place. Usurping lands as if they belong to them and them only. And they keep doing it! Anyway, as I was saying before above, the growing violence of those Zionist gangs prior to their war of independence, used violence tactics against Palestinians of different ethnicity, which resulted in numerous deaths.
This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 "War of Independence", in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces, half before any Arab armies joined the war. This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic. Does your Zionist sources talk about this? The Zionists, committed about 33 massacres, destroying 531 Palestinians towns. In his book: "Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict", page 29, which I have, Norman Finkelstein quotes a message from future prime minister Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun Zionist terrorist group, commending them on the grisly massacre of women, children, and old men at the village of Deir Yassin:
"Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest. Convey my regards to all the commanders and soldiers. We shake your hands. We are all proud of the excellent leadership and the fighting spirit in this great attack. We stand to attention in memory of the slain. We lovingly shake the hands of the wounded. Tell the soldiers: you have made history in Israel with your attack and your conquest. Continue thus until victory. As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest." This latter phrase says it all.
Redodante wrote: with all due respect, what a completely asinine thing to say. see the over 1 million arabs living as citizens in israel with no threat whatsoever of them being deported, rounded up, or threatened with any kind of violence above. Hyperbole only hurts your case.
I refute this above also. "Citizens", sure, but second and third class citizens.
Redodante wrote: where are these "concentration like camps" in israel? let me know where they are so i can look them up. while you're at it, check on the jordan thing i said, if we're talking camps.
I'm referring to the Palestinian refugee camps, Palestinians who lost their homes as a result of the Arab/Israeli war in 1948, Palestinians who were either forced or choose to leave. Of course there are many of them in different countries, not just Jordan, like: Lebanon, Syria, West Bank, Gaza Strip. The numbers of these have grown over the years from 914,000 to 4.6 million, with the ever present settlements taking place, destroying Palestinians homes while slowly depriving them of basic services. This history and ongoing events we don't hear in most Western news, it's not explained or even mentioned, you must wonder why. One has to dig up this ignored information. These refugees, especially those in the Gaza Strip and West Bank have a story to tell, not the air brushed western version of the new Israeli state, born in blood, mass slaughter, destruction, displacement of hundred of thousand of survivors, to this day oppressed, harassed, intimidated, humiliated, attacked, and arrested for being Muslims, not Jews in their own land, in their own country, illegally occupied for decades.
Redodante wrote: While again, I don't see Israel as innocent, they were attacked by the combined forces of the nations around them 4, count em 4 times.
This is not accurate at all, again you keep spewing more Zionist propaganda. Most of the wars and aggression were started by Israel, and perhaps a couple of open aggressions against them by surrounding neighbors to regain stolen land and as a response to those Israel initiating wars anyway (built in hatred caused by Israel usurpation), beginning with the acts of violence before and after their "war of independence" from the British mandate, as explained before. This is factual history.
Redodante wrote: In between, all the way up to this very day, it is continually attacked by rockets, snipers, suicide bombers, etc. Sending kids into Israel to blow themselves up.
Notwithstanding the fact that this violence Palestinians resort to, as a desperate counter measures to get at a Goliath, who oppresses them in every which way, you mean to tell me, you are comparing these desperate "primitive" ways of retaliation and hatred with a military super power who possesses nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, backed a world super powers to boot? Wow! I have to tell you, get your facts straight and stop looking facts upside down. In "Operation Cast Lead" 2008-09, they killed hundreds of children and innocent Palestinians, using white phosphorous ammunitions as a way to experiment on them, killing and injuring them, damaging civilian structures, schools, markets, a humanitarian aid post and a hospital. These are crimes against humanity for heaven's sake.http://www.hrw.org/features/rain-fire-w ... horus-gaza
Redodante wrote: Have you ever read the Hamas charter? It cites a verse from the Hadith:
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)
Can you show me a charter or official Israeli government document that calls for killing all Muslims? I'll wait.
I can't find this quote anywhere, however I could care less whether it is true or not. I'm not the religious type anyway. And for me, there's no need to read a statement like that to understand, there's hatred built-in in groups like Hamas or Fatah, all is needed is for one to understand the true history of how the state of Israel came to be to realize why this ongoing struggle persist. However, I can give you a quote by David Ben-Gurion, the Zionist founder and first Prime Minister of Israel, addressing the Zionist Action Committee, talking about the 'Arab Demographic Problem' :
"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area, even if only in an artificial way, in a military way.... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population."
Ben-Gurion also wrote: "The war shall give us the land. The concepts of 'ours' and 'not ours' are peace concepts only, and they lose their meaning during war." "In the Negev we shall not buy the land. We shall conquer it. You forget that we are at war."
A warmonger for sure, who reflects the Zionist quest for Jews for Israel at all cost, on stolen land no less.
Redodante wrote: they're doing a really horrible job of controlling the media if that's the case, israel is not doing well in the PR wars.
On the contrary, you are tacit proof of how successful they are in the propaganda campaign for misinformation.
Redodante wrote: is this like Alex Jones' "major university studies show" or "i have the documents?" what israeli holocaust historians? and again, hmmmm, a society that is just like Nazi Germany, with historians from that society criticizing the country and the use of the holocaust? what's wrong with this picture?
There are plenty of Jewish historians out there FYI who have written true account books, who are not Zionists and give a neutral and accurate information detached from non-sense like "we are the chosen people". Google them.
Redodante wrote: wait, so covering one of the most horrendous events in human history is all part of the zionist plan?
Schindler's list , The Piano, Exodus and many recent others are just Zionist PR to create rapport towards Israel and ignore Zionist oppression against Palestinians.
Redodante wrote:Total warheads by nation:
North Korea-less than 10
(federation of american scientists statistics)
which would make it 6th, not a big mistake, but for the sake of accuracy. as for "fifth largest arms producer," nonsense, israel ranks 10th by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute for exports. if you're talking about production alone, not relevant. it's no shocker a country the size of New Jersey surrounded by enemies has the weapons you speak of and produces lots of them.
I could've been wrong with my statistics, sure, but in the final analysis, does it matter whether they are 4th, 6th or 89th? Israel has an estimated arsenal of 100 weapons all of which are considered deliverable. A most military super power in the Middle East. It comprises mostly non-strategic (tactical) weapons deliverable by several types of aircraft including F-4 Phantoms, F-16s and F-15Es. There is also concern that Israel has equipped its conventionally powered submarines with cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads. Not to mention biological and chemical weapons. How do that sophisticated and high Tec armament stack up against Hamas' rockets, suicide bombers, stones ? To be clear, I'm against all violence, and deaths on both sides. Human lives are human lives, and it's sad to see this crisis that need not be to begin with.
Redodante wrote:you can't steal something that didn't belong to someone else.
Gosh, more Zionist propaganda. The claim that Palestine was an almost empty, barren land waiting for the Jews to claim it as their divine right. There were people living in Palestine, of which only 4% were Jews, it was multicultural society during the Ottoman's.
Redodante wrote: But you end your post with a photo of an Israeli protester setting himself on fire protesting rising cost of living (primarily). So, in Nazi Germany, did the people have the right to free assembly like this?
Right, you can assemble in the streets of Israel and protest, as long as you don't talk against their apartheid, terrorist state of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians or they'll do to you what happened to this brave Jewish young man:http://youtu.be/8O3FinFIyiI