San Borja safest district in Lima

[americorps]

The top 4 are

San Borja
San Isidro
Miraflores
Surco


The bottom 4 are

Rimac
Villa El Salvador
San Juan Lurigancho
La Victoria


according to a study from DATUM.

[falconagain]

San Borja the safest, what a joke. La Victoria is right in front of it.
It is not uncommon for criminals to steal houses or kidnap people
on it. San Isidro the second most safe district. Not for the former
minister Daniel Mora, criminals emptied his house at noon in the
middle of San Isidro a few months ago. The house contain his personal
property and some intelligence records of all Lima inhabitants.

If those are the safest, I do not want to know how is the situation
on the least safe districts.

[americorps]

you sort of forgot to mention, for some odd reason, that La Victoria does not so much border San Borja as it touches in a small corner near aviacion and Canada.

There is a sliver of San Borja that crosses Javier Prado and only a small part of that sliver touches La Victoria, but I realize that does NOT paint the picture you wish people to believe. so have it it.

And offering one significant case of crime as though it defies the entirety of the evidence is..well... amusing to me.

[richiecry]

Falcon....what are the safest districts in your opinion then?

[chi chi]

San Borja the safest, what a joke. La Victoria is right in front of it.
It is not uncommon for criminals to steal houses or kidnap people
on it. San Isidro the second most safe district. Not for the former
minister Daniel Mora, criminals emptied his house at noon in the
middle of San Isidro a few months ago. The house contain his personal
property and some intelligence records of all Lima inhabitants.

If those are the safest, I do not want to know how is the situation
on the least safe districts.

And former president Alan Garcia his house got ransacked during the daytime in Surco.

I've been many times to Villa El Salvador and have never been approached by drugdealer, never been hassled by beggars, no hassled by hookers and nobody tried to snatch my gf her handbag.
When I go to Miraflores, the above things happen all the time.

[chi chi]

I think that the safest district is La Punto De Callao.

It's also the only districts where you see many houses without metal bars or framework in front of their windows.

Most people who live in La Punta are old folks.

[falconagain]

you sort of forgot to mention, for some odd reason, that La Victoria does not so much border San Borja as it touches in a small corner near aviacion and Canada.

There is a sliver of San Borja that crosses Javier Prado and only a small part of that sliver touches La Victoria, but I realize that does NOT paint the picture you wish people to believe. so have it it.

And offering one significant case of crime as though it defies the entirety of the evidence is..well... amusing to me.

The border looks small to any person that looks at a map and has never lived in those areas, but it is
actually quite big, besides that there is poor parts of San Borja close to la Victoria where the criminals
go to hide. I have lived in both districts for several years and I also have relatives in both districts, so
I am actually painting an accurate picture or at least more accurate than the average foreigner as I have
no bias.

The significant case of crime is one of the multitude of incidents that have happened all over the city
, looks like you do not watch national news or do not walk around on the street to be aware of the
situation.

[gerard]

Do you have a link to the study? Just curious as to whether the stats reflects total numbers of crimes, or are per capita. The bottom 4 districts are all more highly populated than the top 4, although the difference is relatively small in some cases.

Is the list of the bottom 4 from worst to least worst? i.e.; is Rimac the overall worst or La Victoria?

[renodante]

san borja is a bit cheaper to live than miraflores too no?

[americorps]

The border looks small to any person that looks at a map and has never lived in those areas, but it is
actually quite big, besides that there is poor parts of San Borja close to la Victoria where the criminals
go to hide. I have lived in both districts for several years and I also have relatives in both districts, so
I am actually painting an accurate picture or at least more accurate than the average foreigner as I have
no bias.

The significant case of crime is one of the multitude of incidents that have happened all over the city
, looks like you do not watch national news or do not walk around on the street to be aware of the
situation.

I lived in San Borja for 6 years and now live in Lince and there is nothing accurate about your comments, other than I agree that the very small corner of San Borja you are referring to has higher crime than much of the rest of the district....none of which changes the statistics.

[americorps]

I think that the safest district is La Punto De Callao.

It's also the only districts where you see many houses without metal bars or framework in front of their windows.

Most people who live in La Punta are old folks.

Callao is not in Lima

[caliguy]

i would think that Cieneguilla is a safe place. p.s. i live in La Victoria and i never go for strolls after dark.

[teamoperu]

Really need the link to see the study. Given that the vast majority of crime in Peru goes unreported, it would be interesting how the study was done.

[americorps]

http://www.ciudadnuestra.org/facipub/up ... 2_cn_2.pdf

It is a combo of stats and surveys

[stuart]

I think the study was talking about which is most safe, not which is safe. These Datum stats seem to concur with PNP stats though.

I agree with Chi Chi that out of all the poorer areas, Villa is surprising safe. The people living there are mostly decent hardworking and honest. A walk through La Victoria or El Agustino turns up a whole other sort of people.

[falconagain]

Actually according to the PNP crime has been growing for years faster than the economy.
The truth is that San Borja is not the safest place, it is only the least dangerous district
taking in account that according to the PNP half of the crimes in Peru are committed in
Lima.

[stuart]

Actually according to the PNP crime has been growing for years faster than the economy.
The truth is that San Borja is not the safest place, it is only the least dangerous district
taking in account that according to the PNP half of the crimes in Peru are committed in
Lima.

Actually, least dangerous = most safe.

[falconagain]

It is a matter of Perspective, if you are Peruvian and live in San Borja you can lose either
your life, freedom, property or your family could be attacked any time. That is not a most
safe situation when you are obliged to spend an average of $4,000 dollars extra for your
safety (alarms, alarm company, weapons, weapons training, payoffs to serenazgo, payoffs
to police, electric fence, among others, security personnel).

Looking over your shoulder everyday to see if somebody is going to kidnap you is not safe.

[teamoperu]

A great study! They did supervised questionnaires of 400 randomly selected participants over 18 in each neighbourhood (selected to match the neighbourhood demographics). Has a 5% sampling error.

So my general summary:

48% of victims of the robberies were while walking, 19% burglaries in housing, 15% by holdup.
34% of the time a weapon was used. Only 6% by gangs. 56% of the time a weapon was not used, but remember 20% are burglaries so I wonder what percentage of times a weapon was used for a robbery while walking?

So about half of the households in Lima have had someone who has been a victim in this past year.
(Ranging from 25% - 56% of households depending on district).

Resulting in 70% of the population feels insecure and having only 34% confidence in the serenazcos, 30% confidence in the police.

So ignoring the fine details, one could say in your household in Lima, there is an about 43% chance someone will be a victim of crime, and a 34% chance that a weapon will be used doing it... every year!

Think about it. When you walk down the street almost half of the people you see live in a household that has been victimized, this year! So it is possible that almost all the people you see live in a household that has likely been victimized in the past 5 years. This is absolutely astounding! So no wonder it is difficult to find someone who hasn't been victimized!

Another observation. The poorer districts are victimized more. They are victimizing poor households the most. People who struggle to make ends meet. Atrocious.

A big generalization, to make things simple. If you live in a poor neighbourhood in Lima there is a 50% chance you or a loved one will be victimized, 30% of the time using a weapon, this year. Even in better neighbourhoods, you stand a 30% chance of victimization, each year.

Folks, the odds are going to catch up to each and every one of us, if not this year, next year, or the next.

Just a note to clarify. Unlike the thread title, the study does not exactly rank which are the safer / less safe districts in Lima. You could live in La Molina, be robbed La Victoria and it would show up as a household victimized in La Molina because that is where you live but not where you were victimized. Though of course household burglaries would be in La Molina and most crime does happen where are the most, your neighbourhood.

[chi chi]

I agree with Chi Chi that out of all the poorer areas, Villa is surprising safe. The people living there are mostly decent hardworking and honest.

Poor people aren't criminals.

The kingpins of the prostitution, extorsion and drugs maffia can afford to live in San Isidro and Miraflores and they have more blood on their hands than the poor single mother that steals a can of milk for her baby from Vivanda.

[richiecry]

The study is interesting and seems well detailed. I am not fluent in spanish but I could understand a lot of what was written. A friend of mine said I could live with him in San Martin de Porres before I find my own place (when I move to Lima next year)....maybe I will politely decline this gesture....San Borja and Magdalena seem better bets.

[teamoperu]

The study is interesting and seems well detailed. I am not fluent in spanish but I could understand a lot of what was written. A friend of mine said I could live with him in San Martin de Porres before I find my own place (when I move to Lima next year)....maybe I will politely decline this gesture....San Borja and Magdalena seem better bets.

Not sure I follow the logic. The study does not specifically rank districts by safety. Besides San Martin de Porres ranks at the average, San Borja only 5% - 15% better (given the margin of error is 5%). Small difference. Your better bet would be to not move to Lima if you do not want to be victimized.

Better to get it in the mind that when you move to Lima you have a near 100% chance of you or loved one will be robbed in the coming years. Yes, there are exceptions, but I can bet you a coffee that I am right more times than I am wrong in stating this, and I would always win the coffee.

[chi chi]

Better to get it in the mind that when you move to Lima you have a near 100% chance of you or loved one will be robbed in the coming years. Yes, there are exceptions, but I can bet you a coffee that I am right more times than I am wrong in stating this, and I would always win the coffee.

Don't scare of people. Watch your stuff, use common sense and you won't get robbed or stolen.
It's normal that more robberies happen in Lima because it's a city with almost 10 million people.

Unfortunately, I don't like coffee otherwise you owe me one.

[richiecry]

Teamoperu...yah I do not think ANYONE would move to Lima for safety or security...and certainly not me coming from one of the safest big cities in the world (Toronto)....but your point is well taken in terms of likelihood of something happening. I have been to Lima many times (almost 30) over the last 10 years and I known several people who have been robbed or stolen from...though (as far as I know) none of them were victims of violent crime. The bottom line too....no matter how may surveys or studies get done....anyone can be a victim at any time in any place.

[teamoperu]

Better to get it in the mind that when you move to Lima you have a near 100% chance of you or loved one will be robbed in the coming years. Yes, there are exceptions, but I can bet you a coffee that I am right more times than I am wrong in stating this, and I would always win the coffee.

Don't scare of people. Watch your stuff, use common sense and you won't get robbed or stolen.
It's normal that more robberies happen in Lima because it's a city with almost 10 million people.

Unfortunately, I don't like coffee otherwise you owe me one.

Don't scare of people.

Just another *&%$& ChiChi post, it is bunk. Telling the truth is not to scare anyone, just properly inform them, unlike your comments.

Watch your stuff, use common sense and you won't get robbed or stolen.

You can watch your stuff, you can use common sense and you will likely get robbed. Read the study. Do you not think that the victims in Lima last year were not using common sense and not watching their stuff? Sure they were. Especially when 70% do not feel secure. Read the study.

It's normal that more robberies happen in Lima because it's a city with almost 10 million people.

Of course larger cities have more crime by absolute numbers, but the study did it by percentages. Read the study.

Unfortunately, I don't like coffee otherwise you owe me one.

Do you drink tea? Doesn't matter if you do not drink coffee, you will not be winning one. I drink coffee and you'll be treating me.

[Kelly]

Watch your stuff, use common sense and you won't get robbed or stolen.

You can watch your stuff, you can use common sense and you will likely get robbed. Read the study. Do you not think that the victims in Lima last year were not using common sense and not watching their stuff? Sure they were. Especially when 70% do not feel secure. Read the study.

While I mostly agree with what you said - this part has no statistics to back it up. It may very well be that 90% of the people who were robbed had it happen in a moment when they themselves were being careless.

In the 8 years I've lived here, I've never been robbed, burgled, or otherwise victimized (unless you count that taxi driver who tried to charge me 20soles to get from Miraflores to Surquillo). I'm vigilant when I'm out, and do my best to take every precaution - and I keep my eyes open for shady people, anyone who seems to pay too much attention to me.

My husband is Peruvian - in the same time period, he's been mugged twice. Both times, same scenario - walking at night in an unsafe part of the district, with a backpack slung over one shoulder, three or four attackers grabbing at him and holding him while one rips off his backpack. One time, he was actually foolish enough to be talking on his cell. It was stupid and careless of him.

So while I don't think there's any way to make yourself 100% safe, I do think there are ways to improve your odds of being in that 45-50% that gets victimized each year.

[teamoperu]

Watch your stuff, use common sense and you won't get robbed or stolen.

You can watch your stuff, you can use common sense and you will likely get robbed. Read the study. Do you not think that the victims in Lima last year were not using common sense and not watching their stuff? Sure they were. Especially when 70% do not feel secure. Read the study.

While I mostly agree with what you said - this part has no statistics to back it up. It may very well be that 90% of the people who were robbed had it happen in a moment when they themselves were being careless.

In the 8 years I've lived here, I've never been robbed, burgled, or otherwise victimized (unless you count that taxi driver who tried to charge me 20soles to get from Miraflores to Surquillo). I'm vigilant when I'm out, and do my best to take every precaution - and I keep my eyes open for shady people, anyone who seems to pay too much attention to me.

My husband is Peruvian - in the same time period, he's been mugged twice. Both times, same scenario - walking at night in an unsafe part of the district, with a backpack slung over one shoulder, three or four attackers grabbing at him and holding him while one rips off his backpack. One time, he was actually foolish enough to be talking on his cell. It was stupid and careless of him.

So while I don't think there's any way to make yourself 100% safe, I do think there are ways to improve your odds of being in that 45-50% that gets victimized each year.

Kelly, you know you just confirmed what the study documented. In your household there has been a victim, your household has been victimized, twice over.

“I do think there are ways to improve your odds of being in that 45-50% that gets victimized each year.”

No, no matter how careful you are the study says someone in your household will likely be victimized, so will be in that 45-50%.

And lets be careful. I quite react when we start to blame the victim for being “careless” and “stupid”... I think that is unfair.

[americorps]

I agree people should be vigilant, but let us not cross the line to blaming them for being victims of crime, that is solely the result of the criminal and

CHI CHI is very wrong to suggest if a poor person commits a crime it is not a crime because he or she is poor.

Age, sex, sexual orientation, economic status, nationality, weight, hair color, religion or whatever does NOT excuse someone committing a crime and the very suggestion that it does is offensive and irresponsible.

[Kelly]

If every household has a 50% chance annually, that would work out to an average of an attack every 2 years.

We've had an attack every four years, which actually bears out my thinking - that because I've been very careful and vigilant, I've reduced our overall average.

And I don't blame the victim for being attacked, but at the same time, there are common sense things you can do to reduce the odds of being victimized.

[chi chi]

CHI CHI is very wrong to suggest if a poor person commits a crime it is not a crime because he or she is poor.

I never said that.

I said that the rich kingpins of the prostitution, drugs and extorsion maffia are worser criminals than the poor hungry bugger that steals a sandwich.

[teamoperu]

there are common sense things you can do to reduce the odds of being victimized.

Agreed.

But if it does happen to you, please do not beat yourself up (or others) for not being careful enough. One of the consequences of being robbed is that you somehow feel guilty for letting your guard down... making you doubly victimized. Repeat after me: It is not your fault, it is the fault of the ciminal... or parents... or society...

[chi chi]

There are also honest people in Peru.

I once forgot my cellphone in an internet place. Someone found it and went through my contactslist and called my gf to tell her he found my phone.

Whilst driving my motorbike, my driving licence and SOAT felt out of my pocket.
Before I even got back home, somebody who found them, slipped them under the door of my house.

[americorps]

Ahh, Chi Chi,

sort of like the church saying homsexuality is a big sin, but adultery is a medium sin and telling a lie is a small sin.

It is a crime and should be punished or it is not.

[tupacperu]

Safest depends on what side of the stats you fall.
A victim in San Borja may not see it. Actually I find places like San Miguel, Pueblo Libre, Magdelena safer. Theives go where the money is. I have seen more crime living in Miraflores, more than when I lived in lower middle class neighborhood.. Imho.

[tupacperu]

If you count domestic violence as a crime or family squabbles then I can see Datum's point.

[americorps]

Safest depends on what side of the stats you fall.
A victim in San Borja may not see it. Actually I find places like San Miguel, Pueblo Libre, Magdelena safer. Theives go where the money is. I have seen more crime living in Miraflores, more than when I lived in lower middle class neighborhood.. Imho.

The facts do not back up your opinion.

[chi chi]

Safest depends on what side of the stats you fall.
A victim in San Borja may not see it. Actually I find places like San Miguel, Pueblo Libre, Magdelena safer. Theives go where the money is. I have seen more crime living in Miraflores, more than when I lived in lower middle class neighborhood.. Imho.

The facts do not back up your opinion.

I've never met someone who has been robbed in San Miguel, Magdalena or Villa El Salvador but I've met numerous people that had their handbag or watch snatched in Miraflores.

Still, I think passing through Miraflores it 'doable' but you just have to be extra carefull there and be aware of your surroundings.

[americorps]

And hence lies your problem, Chi CHi,

You mistake your limited experience as though it is incontrovertible fact and universal and it is not.

Just because you personally have not experienced such means nothing compared to researched and peer reviewed scientifically gathered information, in fact, considering your history of erroneous information you sort of set the standard of what NOT to believe. Not an attack, just a summation of the factual history of your postings.

[chi chi]

And hence lies your problem, Chi CHi,

You mistake your limited experience as though it is incontrovertible fact and universal and it is not.

Just because you personally have not experienced such means nothing compared to researched and peer reviewed scientifically gathered information, in fact, considering your history of erroneous information you sort of set the standard of what NOT to believe. Not an attack, just a summation of the factual history of your postings.

Amerifox, if you want to hear the truth then listen to the people on the street.

Not those scientifics, card readers, glass bal readers, hand palm readers or other people who make up their surveys and statistics in an office but have never experienced the streets themselves.

[americorps]

And hence lies your problem, Chi CHi,

You mistake your limited experience as though it is incontrovertible fact and universal and it is not.

Just because you personally have not experienced such means nothing compared to researched and peer reviewed scientifically gathered information, in fact, considering your history of erroneous information you sort of set the standard of what NOT to believe. Not an attack, just a summation of the factual history of your postings.

Amerifox, if you want to hear the truth then listen to the people on the street.

Not those scientifics, card readers, glass bal readers, hand palm readers or other people who make up their surveys and statistics in an office but have never experienced the streets themselves.

To read between the lines, that is your call to believe whatever the heck you want despite all the evidence to the contrary.

It sound more like religion than science, belive what you want to belive it then justify it as opposed to examine the facts and follow what they represent.

That is fine for you, but I think you can do damange when you present your unsupportable conclusions as though they are valid. If others believe them and follow your word thinking you have any clue what you are talking about, they can suffer as a result.

I think it is important when you continue to post false information to make sure you are countered with the verifiable fact.

And for the record, I do NOT think you are telling a lie. I am quite sure you believe the stuff you say.

[Lloyd007]

The only crime I ever saw take place was in San Borja - cars stopped at traffic lights, two dudes on a motorbike, smashed the passenger window and grabbed a ladies bag. Her shoe went flying too, which was very odd. Apart from that, maybe I have been fortunate...

[Kelly]

Maybe she threw the shoe at them?

[chi chi]

Maybe she threw the shoe at them?

She must have been from a Middle Eastern Country. In those countries, throwing a shoe at someone is very offending.
Anyway, fair play to here. Hopefully, the stilleto heel ended up in their ...

[Arroz con Pollo]

She must have been from a Middle Eastern Country. In those countries, throwing a shoe at someone is very offending.

Can you tell me the country in which throwing your shoe at someone is not offensive?

[Kelly]

Well, if they were Manolo Blahnik's, and she threw both of them - i wouldn't be offended.

[falconagain]

Whenever women are assaulted in Peru. They remove their shoes sometimes to follow the criminal.
Or they use the shoe as a weapon by throwing it hoping that it will it the guy and make him fall.
The second intention is to draw attention towards the criminal because many people are already
tired of this incidents and take immediate action by stoning the criminal and leaving him dead
or at least half dead. (Univision showed this a couple of weeks ago criticizing the people that
were attacking the criminal).

[americorps]

Whenever women are assaulted in Peru. They remove their shoes sometimes to follow the criminal.
Or they use the shoe as a weapon by throwing it hoping that it will it the guy and make him fall.
The second intention is to draw attention towards the criminal because many people are already
tired of this incidents and take immediate action by stoning the criminal and leaving him dead
or at least half dead. (Univision showed this a couple of weeks ago criticizing the people that
were attacking the criminal).

I will do everything in my power to put vigelantes like that behind bars.

I will tell you very clearly as to why.

Many years ago here in Peru, in the village where my partners family is from, the town vigelantes captured 3 boys they caught stealing cows and burned them to death in their car. All 3 under the age of 18.

A few days later, they found out the crooks were someone else and the kids were innocent.

No one was ever brought to justice for brutal senseless murder, and that nfuriates me.

I

[falconagain]

Personally I feel Vigilante justice as something positive in Peruvian society even with its shortcomings.
I have witnessed personally the Peruvian police to behave in worse ways than what you describe.
Vigilantes at least do not get paid. So I will continue supporting them(the vigilantes).

[americorps]

Personally I feel Vigilante justice as something positive in Peruvian society even with its shortcomings.
I have witnessed personally the Peruvian police to behave in worse ways than what you describe.
Vigilantes at least do not get paid. So I will continue supporting them(the vigilantes).

I will let you explain that to the mothers of 3 boys burnt alive how wonderful you think the system is.

[rama0929]

Personally I feel Vigilante justice as something positive in Peruvian society even with its shortcomings.
I have witnessed personally the Peruvian police to behave in worse ways than what you describe.
Vigilantes at least do not get paid. So I will continue supporting them(the vigilantes).

Well, if they're going to be burning the wrong people, they shouldn't get paid.

Vigilante-ism has no place in a civilized society.