the second amendment in action

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chi chi
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the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:19 am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1214/school ... ticut.html

20 children that were younger than 8 years old were brutally murdered by the second amendment.

Now it's time to severely punish anyone who possesses a gun, attempts to buy a gun, sells a gun or attempts to sell a gun.


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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:25 am

There is many People in the US that need to use guns for personal protection,
either at work (transportation of valuables, documents or money) or at their
own homes (they have a business at home with a valued inventory, they store
jewelry, or they take care of the safety of their properties).

You cannot penalize them because of other persons misusing guns.
It will be simply not fair. And besides that the government offers a
very inefficient form of protection.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby sbaustin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:57 am

chi chi wrote:20 children that were younger than 8 years old were brutally murdered by the second amendment.


They were murdered by a person not the second amendment.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:00 pm

sbaustin wrote:
chi chi wrote:20 children that were younger than 8 years old were brutally murdered by the second amendment.


They were murdered by a person not the second amendment.


The second amendment made this mass murder possible.
No second amendment = no mass murders and no gun crime
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:06 pm

chi chi wrote:
sbaustin wrote:
chi chi wrote:20 children that were younger than 8 years old were brutally murdered by the second amendment.


They were murdered by a person not the second amendment.


The second amendment made this mass murder possible.
No second amendment = no mass murders and no gun crime


That is not true. Sick People are the ones responsible for the mass murder incidents.
If there was no second amendment, they would find another way to execute their
desires. Believe it or not guns are not the best way to kill people. Just ask the
unabomber.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby fanning » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:24 pm

Yes you have sick people all over the world. Like in China.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324407504578182904026663998.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
He didn't have a gun, and stabbed 22 children. NOBODY DIED.
So not having access to guns, don't stop lunatics in commiting horrible crimes, but they limit a lot the ability to actually kill.
You could kill somebody with a pencil, but I wonder how many schoolchildren would have been killed in Connecticut if this lunatic entered the school with a box full of pencils .
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby panman » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:32 pm

For once Chi Chi's right, It's time for a third ammendment, to get rid of the second ammendment. Using the excuse that guns aren't the best way to kill people is a pathetic one.
Statistics show quite clearly that there is a problem when it comes to firearms.
http://sbcoalition.org/2011/04/gun-viol ... tatistics/
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:14 pm

panman wrote:For once Chi Chi's right, It's time for a third ammendment, to get rid of the second ammendment. Using the excuse that guns aren't the best way to kill people is a pathetic one.
Statistics show quite clearly that there is a problem when it comes to firearms.
http://sbcoalition.org/2011/04/gun-viol ... tatistics/


You are forgetting about the law abiding citizens that use guns properly. And how many lives
are saved due to people that know how to use a gun properly. You cannot create another
amendment when there is plenty of people that reap many positive benefits from the second.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby panman » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:46 pm

falconagain wrote:
panman wrote:For once Chi Chi's right, It's time for a third ammendment, to get rid of the second ammendment. Using the excuse that guns aren't the best way to kill people is a pathetic one.
Statistics show quite clearly that there is a problem when it comes to firearms.
http://sbcoalition.org/2011/04/gun-viol ... tatistics/


You are forgetting about the law abiding citizens that use guns properly. And how many lives
are saved due to people that know how to use a gun properly. You cannot create another
amendment when there is plenty of people that reap many positive benefits from the second.

I'm not forgetting the law abiding citizens, I'm saying that Using the excuse that guns aren't the best way to kill people is a pathetic one.
As I said, statistics show without argument that there is a problem when it comes to firearms, hopefully reformed legislation would help resolve the all to regular occurences of armed idiots taking to the streets and shooting dozens of inocent people.
http://sbcoalition.org/2011/04/gun-viol ... tatistics/[/quote]
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby sbaustin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:45 pm

The second amendment made this mass murder possible.
No second amendment = no mass murders and no gun crime


Your opinion is fine but there are 4 times more people killed by cars than by guns in the USA so if you really want to start somewhere why not start with cars. Hell, cars are not even built for protection or anything yet they kill so many. In 2010, 1200 children between the ages of 0 and 14 were killed by alcohol impaired drivers. So let's outlaw alcohol again as well as cars.

These second amendment arguments are just distractions.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:26 pm

There are plenty of good arguments for strict gun control and I never understood the modern change in the Constitution that calls for gun ownership as part of a WELL REGULATED Malitia to a gun free for all.

However, there are so many false assumptions and fake facts from what CHi CHi says, I was wondering if there was anyone here who had any honest and logical points to make as well, or just his regular emotional knee jerk reaction void of logic and fact?

For example, his blanket fake statements that if there were gun control that this would not happen. I agree it would be harder to happen, but this HAS happened in countries with strick gun control, making Chi Chi´s sweeping statement absolutely false.

There is no reason that there are over 200 million privatized guns in the USA and almost another 200 million guns for police or military type usage. No one can tell me that easier access to guns or more guns on the streets will make USA safer and if they try, I will find them loony.

However, simply banning guns is way knee jerk as well and the response of a weak and mindless government.

As humans, and in this case, as Americans, I think if we really tried, we could figure out a middle ground instead of knee-jerk chi chi where we ban everything and knee-jerk Carl Rove where we put guns in every hand.

Some examples of places to start a conversation, access to mental health care and mental health screening in society as a whole.

Conflict resulation being part of a core curriculum taught in schools,

Safety limits on guns such as smart triggers that are finger print identified.

I come from an area where people still hunt to eat and not only for sport and they need guns to keep the wolves from the crops and banning all guns is absurd and will not totally eliminate incidents such as this

And for the record, I will respond since this has already been started and is going on, but I find it incredibly shameful that Chi Chi uses these children for his political gain before their bodies are even in the ground. It takes a special level of insenitivity and disrespect to do so.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:45 am

sbaustin wrote:
The second amendment made this mass murder possible.
No second amendment = no mass murders and no gun crime


Your opinion is fine but there are 4 times more people killed by cars than by guns in the USA so if you really want to start somewhere why not start with cars. Hell, cars are not even built for protection or anything yet they kill so many. In 2010, 1200 children between the ages of 0 and 14 were killed by alcohol impaired drivers. So let's outlaw alcohol again as well as cars.

These second amendment arguments are just distractions.


Cars are made to transport people. Guns are only made to kill people.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby sbaustin » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:58 am

chi chi wrote:
Cars are made to transport people. Guns are only made to kill people.


Yet they kill vastly more people and children than guns.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:02 am

No second amendment = no mass murders and no gun crime


That's why there are no illicit drugs in the U.S, because they're illegal.

No legal illicit drugs=no drug abuse.

Mexico has very strict gun laws, that's why no drug cartel members own guns and are unable to commit many murders in the north, because they have no access to guns, because they're illegal there.

I see what you mean Cheech.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby bobg » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:11 am

yes and the usual way the government solves a "problem" like this is by taking away more individual rights !
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby panman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:37 am

sbaustin wrote:
chi chi wrote:
Cars are made to transport people. Guns are only made to kill people.


Yet they kill vastly more people and children than guns.

Because in countries like Peru, there is very little enforced control and vehicles are driven in the majority by idiots who haven't a clue how to drive.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:43 am

bobg wrote:yes and the usual way the government solves a "problem" like this is by taking away more individual rights !



I ask again how the right to bare arms as part of a WELL REGULATED militia has become a gun free for all.

Except for Chi Chi, no one is calling for an all out gun ban, just making sure guns are WELL REGULATED as stipulated in the Constitution. I fail to see how falling the Constitituion provision IN IT ENTIRETY is taking away your right?
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby sbaustin » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:56 pm

Can someone expound on the gun control laws of Norway?
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby adrian Thorne » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:48 pm

sbaustin wrote:Can someone expound on the gun control laws of Norway?


I think you fed me a Marmite sandwich. Not so much Noway, but how about "Belgium"

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/gun-cul ... de-the-us/

Very interesting reading. Especially compaired to the second amendment.

PS dont forget Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria.UK and of course The famous Liege attack in Belgium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Li%C3%A8ge_attack.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby rubble » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:09 pm

Just an idea, but seeing how the horse has definately bolted regarding gun control, why not make it harder to get ammunition?
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby sbaustin » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:21 pm

adrian Thorne wrote:
sbaustin wrote:Can someone expound on the gun control laws of Norway?


I think you fed me a Marmite sandwich. Not so much Noway, but how about "Belgium"



I was thinking more about Anders Behring Breivik who killed 77 people in Norway.. I didn't realize that people from Belgium were so violent and had such access to weaponry.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:00 pm

Here is a report from DWTV about the crime in Brussels,

They can not even keep members of the EU Parliment safe, their city is going to pot.

They are also being noted for a dramatic increase in racism. I think Belgium needs to do a lot of work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRsAw9wztmk

Also, it is the country known for the fact that not a single parish was exempt from a priest abuse scandal.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby tomsax » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:46 pm

The actor Morgan Freemans has an interesting take on it:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media ...reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


I'm sure he has put a finger on the motivation. However I can't help thinking that America's obsession with guns and the right to bear arms is also part of the problem. People can and do go nuts using guns anyway in the world but it just seems to happen more over there. Gun control just seems a no brainer.. I suppose if you consider the rights of gun users paramount compared to the rights of school children...I disagree with Morgan on that one.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:59 pm

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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby tomsax » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:57 am



That will teach me! I'm now glad I didn't agree with all he didn't say.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby SilverbackPeru » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:49 pm

It's easy for europeans to over react when it comes to America and its gun laws policy and altho i don't agree with having access to guns that easily i do see all the problems trying to ban them would cause.

For starters lets safe the government bans guns and forces everyone to hand their guns in, the only people that will hand in the guns are the everyday person with a gun licence. Most of the people who you don't want to have guns won't have legal and registered firearms, so leaving a situation where the average home owner can't protect himself.

America is still a lot wilder country than Europe, and in the wild there's a tendency for there to be animals that could harm you so your gonna need a gun! People in more remote areas will need firearms for work, farming etc, which means that even if there was a ban some guns would make their way illegally into communities where there is no need for them. Meaning you'll be spending alot of money trying to enforce an unworkable law. For the law to totally work you would need to ban guns everywhere which would be excessive on those who need them.

No matter how many rules you apply a headcase intend on a killing spree is always gonna get his hands on guns no matter where he is. The loonatic can use apply for a licence if he's really determined, he's not exactly gonna say when applying that he's gonna go on a killing spree!

One thing i do think shouldn't be allowed is the sales of things like assualt rifles, there's no justication for someone off the street to have a m16 rifle. What purpose can someone have for owning guns like that and having them available. Someone mentioned making guns bullets expensive, i think thats a good idea, i don't know the average price for a gun but making them extremely expensive wouldn't be a bad thing!

Lets not forget that the states is about the same size as say western europe, so if you were to calculate the shooting sprees in the states t western europe they there would be all that much difference in how often it happens either.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:37 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:No matter how many rules you apply a headcase intend on a killing spree is always gonna get his hands on guns no matter where he is. The loonatic can use apply for a licence if he's really determined, he's not exactly gonna say when applying that he's gonna go on a killing spree!


If no gun licences are issued to anyone then it will become harder for a loonatic to get a gun. Loonatics take it the easy way. Walk in a shop, buy a gun and shoot people.

They aren't martial arts specialists. Without a gun they are nothing and can't do a lot. They might start stabbing people with a knife but that takes more courage and effort.
Victims have more chances of escape. You can run away from someone with a knife or hold a briefcase or whatever you find in front of you or attack him with a chair. But you can't run from a bullet and it al goes much quicker too.


It might sound strange but those loonatics that carry out those shooting aren't real criminals. They are sick people. They are on a mission and feel that they have to do what they are doing. They are not after a ransom or some kind of personal gain.

Many of those cases could have been avoided if the signals weren't ignored but relatives or friends of those people. Or if doctors at least listened to relatives and friends of those people.

In Belgium, there was a young guy that stabbed a few babies and staff in a child daycare centre with a knife in 2009.
His parents noticed that he wasn't acting normal in the months before the attacks and pleaded to had him placed in a psychiatric hospital but doctors refused that. The case didn't go to trail yet and probalbly will never go to trail as psychiatrists are still discussing amongst each other if the guy is 'normal' or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendermonde_nursery_attack

The scary thing is that most of those mass murderers are carried out by very young people.
Common is that those young mass murderers are frequent players of those violent video games. They are addicted to those games. They lock themselves up in their room and play those games. They loose track with the real world. Those games make them mentally sick and often dangerous.

Silverback, I am agree that's it's almost an impossible task to make every home in the US gun free and for sure hardended criminals will succeed in getting a gun somewhere but people should get better educated about guns and I think that playing some kind of video games is more dangerous than having a gun.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby bobg » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:21 pm

The problem is not with guns it's with people the bad people will always have guns, in mexico guns are banned from ownership, how has that worked out? you can't legislate morality , look at all the past failures , they couldn't out law smoking people were educated , and change came from with in.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:21 pm

Well, the pro gun people generally ONLY compare the USA with the emerging world governments or they slice out bits of data like a surgeon and ignore any data that contradicts what they say, and the pure anti gun pople only compare the USA with Western Europe and Scandanavia.

Black and white is almost never the answer in a world filled with shades of gray.

There are, without a doubt, ways to limit gun violence and access to guns is clearly a part of that answer, the only question is to what degree do we balance it with the ability to hunt and protect ourselves.

The gun nuts go overboard when they misrepresent the Constitution by suggesting that no limits on gun control are Constitutional,

Those that only adv advocate extremes, one side or the other, are only extremists. And whey they feel forced to make their point with only partial or falsified information, they are not valid opinions, but blow-hards.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:22 pm

Interesting Utah has allowed their Teachers to carry concealed weapons for the last
12 years. Hopefully other States will follow.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby richiecry » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:47 pm

I do not see any good or benefit coming to allow Teachers to carry concealed guns. In fact....the NRA press conference looked like a scene out of SNL. Deterrance is not an issue for someone crazy enough to put more than one bullet into each of the 20 children killed in Newtown. Arming a schoolteacher simply puts additional onus on them and does not deal with the real problem of gun availability for any Dick, Jane or Harry who can get a gun. I lived in the USA for 14 years...glad I got out of there as it becomes more and more of a bad comedy of a country (in so many ways).

I have no issues allowing anyone to own a gun...as long as all prospective gun owners are required to pass a background check and are made liable for any acts of crime commited with one of their guns. Any one convicted of a violent should never be allowed to own a gun. Ever. Crimes commited with a gun should have an additional 50% time spent in jail added to any sentence.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby SilverbackPeru » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:11 pm

It's always the same stereotype that appears of a gunman as well, a shy loner with not many friends, suffering stress and pressure who eventfully snaps. Maybe it would be nice if more people were a bit more compassionate and caring towards their fellow people around them.

There's usually lots of judgemental people in society that judge others as weird etc if they don't fit into the usual mould of the average person, these people then push their views onto others that a person is a weirdo and so you end up with a individual who feels isolated from the rest of society and when pushed too far snaps. Then you have everyone on tv saying how the person was weird etc etc after the event happened.

I'm not defending the people that do this when it happens but maybe a bit more care and notice of someone in need wouldn't be a bad thing instead of making them a social lepper! People get moulded by life and especially when young, a persons social skills will not always develope as they should.

I don't think it's got anything to do with long hours on video games either, it's usually the burning sense of injustice, not being accepted and feelings for revenge that will set these people off.

These things probably play a bigger part in the creation of a gunman than gunlaws in my eyes.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:51 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:It's always the same stereotype that appears of a gunman as well, a shy loner with not many friends, suffering stress and pressure who eventfully snaps. Maybe it would be nice if more people were a bit more compassionate and caring towards their fellow people around them.

There's usually lots of judgemental people in society that judge others as weird etc if they don't fit into the usual mould of the average person, these people then push their views onto others that a person is a weirdo and so you end up with a individual who feels isolated from the rest of society and when pushed too far snaps. Then you have everyone on tv saying how the person was weird etc etc after the event happened.

I'm not defending the people that do this when it happens but maybe a bit more care and notice of someone in need wouldn't be a bad thing instead of making them a social lepper! People get moulded by life and especially when young, a persons social skills will not always develope as they should.

I don't think it's got anything to do with long hours on video games either, it's usually the burning sense of injustice, not being accepted and feelings for revenge that will set these people off.

These things probably play a bigger part in the creation of a gunman than gunlaws in my eyes.


I am agree with you Silverbackperu.

Nobody is born to become a mass shooter. People are made that.
Those mass shooters aren't criminals. Those people are ill. They shouldn't be punished. They need treatment.

Most of those mass killers are young people without any criminal record. Neither are they known as trouble makers.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:59 pm

chi chi wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:It's always the same stereotype that appears of a gunman as well, a shy loner with not many friends, suffering stress and pressure who eventfully snaps. Maybe it would be nice if more people were a bit more compassionate and caring towards their fellow people around them.

There's usually lots of judgemental people in society that judge others as weird etc if they don't fit into the usual mould of the average person, these people then push their views onto others that a person is a weirdo and so you end up with a individual who feels isolated from the rest of society and when pushed too far snaps. Then you have everyone on tv saying how the person was weird etc etc after the event happened.

I'm not defending the people that do this when it happens but maybe a bit more care and notice of someone in need wouldn't be a bad thing instead of making them a social lepper! People get moulded by life and especially when young, a persons social skills will not always develope as they should.

I don't think it's got anything to do with long hours on video games either, it's usually the burning sense of injustice, not being accepted and feelings for revenge that will set these people off.

These things probably play a bigger part in the creation of a gunman than gunlaws in my eyes.


I am agree with you Silverbackperu.

Nobody is born to become a mass shooter. People are made that.
Those mass shooters aren't criminals. Those people are ill. They shouldn't be punished. They need treatment.

Most of those mass killers are young people without any criminal record. Neither are they known as trouble makers.


All crime deserves punishment. These people that shoot people unarmed like in duck gallery deserve a
proper reply. One alternative is to arm teachers or have armed security available within the schools.
Another good alternative is to torture them before applying them to any jail or death penalty.
Allowing them to dictate the terms is giving them too much power which is what they seek.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:14 pm

that response is very counter the essence of America.

Justice is not supposed to be revenge, it is suppose to be respect of the law free from passion.

And how many arms do we have to throw on this problem to fix it?

Arm teachers?

Lunch ladies?

Then what next, mall cops?

Cashiers?

Bus drivers?

Crossing Guards?

Ice Cream truck drivers?

just throwing more and more guns on the problem is absurd and will not work.

There were armed guards at Columbine

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force

Fort Hood was a military base, for goodness sakes.

I am not against punishment, I am against us becoming no different than them.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Another good alternative is to torture them before applying them to any jail or death penalty.


If you ever run for office, let me know.

I want to make sure I'm on your good side in case you win.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:22 pm

americorps wrote:that response is very counter the essence of America.

Justice is not supposed to be revenge, it is suppose to be respect of the law free from passion.

And how many arms do we have to throw on this problem to fix it?

Arm teachers?

Lunch ladies?

Then what next, mall cops?

Cashiers?

Bus drivers?

Crossing Guards?

Ice Cream truck drivers?

just throwing more and more guns on the problem is absurd and will not work.

There were armed guards at Columbine

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force

Fort Hood was a military base, for goodness sakes.

I am not against punishment, I am against us becoming no different than them.


The essence of America is freedom for its law abiding citizens. This is not supplied by the
current system. What we haw now is freedom and safety for the criminals. What would
be the point of a system where the criminal feels safer than the law abiding citizen.
Chaos.

The point of torture is never revenge but work as a deterrent for the actions of criminals.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:33 pm

Malarky,

In a free and civilized society, if we torture we loose everything.

The death penalty and torture are very seldom a deterrent unless perhaps in a tailiban type society.

I will resist to the death surrendering all that I hold value in American to become a total police state for my security.

I will not betray the Constitution so easily.

I will not become them.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:39 pm

americorps wrote:Malarky,

In a free and civilized society, if we torture we loose everything.

The death penalty and torture are very seldom a deterrent unless perhaps in a tailiban type society.

I will resist to the death surrendering all that I hold value in American to become a total police state for my security.

I will not betray the Constitution so easily.

I will not become them.


One simple answer: Guantanamo.

The US had death penalty in the past, the country had more freedom and it was not a taliban society
but an example for other countries.

Your resistance was futile. The US is already the closest thing to a current police state, you have the
Patriot Act, Cameras in all major cities, an abusive TSA that is asking for extra authority. The only
thing that is missing is that Obama is declared man of the year by Time. Then we would be the closest
to Germany in the 1930s and 1940s.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby craig » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:25 pm

OPINIÓN: ¿Debe existir el derecho a portar armas de fuego?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
El Presidente de la Asociación Peruana de Propietarios Legales de Armas de Fuego (APPLAF), Rodrigo López, sostiene que la prohibición de tener armas de fuego podría costar más vidas de las que salvaría

Video in Spanish:
http://elcomercio.pe/actualidad/1515508 ... rmas-fuego
--
It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself. -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:49 am

A gun is never going to protect you. Most likely the criminal has more experience with guns than you and is more eager to use it. He for sure used it before so he got nothing to lose anyway.
And what are you going to do if you face 2 or more armed criminals. You might be able to shoot one but the other criminal will shoot you.

And criminals come prepared. They wear bullet proof jackets...etc.

americorps wrote:And how many arms do we have to throw on this problem to fix it?

Arm teachers?

Lunch ladies?

Then what next, mall cops?

Cashiers?

Bus drivers?

Crossing Guards?

Ice Cream truck drivers?

just throwing more and more guns on the problem is absurd and will not work.

There were armed guards at Columbine

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force

Fort Hood was a military base, for goodness sakes.

I am not against punishment, I am against us becoming no different than them.


Just arming those people isn't enough. The lunch ladies, busdrivers, teachers and ice cream truck drivers will also have to wear bullet proof jacket or even better SWAT gear and be trained in SWAT tactics.

Those mass shooters train for months and wear special equipment and have heavy arms.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby chi chi » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:55 am

americorps wrote:And how many arms do we have to throw on this problem to fix it?

Arm teachers?



Soon in the USA:

''Good morning kids, I am your kindergarten teacher and I have just been voted Teacher of the Year''

111.jpg
111.jpg (63.83 KiB) Viewed 4991 times
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:13 pm

ChiChi does have a bit of a point here, if your going to have school staff etc armed then this is going to have to be mentioned in the staff members job description.

Imagine a Dinner ladies job description: prepare school meals, serve children, keep canteen clean, take on armed killer in threat of attack to school. If that last bit was in my job description i would maybe think twice about taking the job and for sure would be asking for one hell of a wage rise if i were to put my life on the line for the job! after all that's what your asking for, someone to maybe die for the job!

When ever something bad happens there's always the government knee jerk response to public demand ending in more endless new laws applied, more government speading to counter something rare and as different events happen you just end up building up higher government spending. I'm not just talking about school killings here.

The truth sadly maybe is that it's almost impossible to prevent things like this regardless of extra police staff at schools, extra tough gunlaws etc etc
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:17 pm

The truth sadly maybe is that it's almost impossible to prevent things like this regardless of extra police staff at schools, extra tough gunlaws etc etc


It would seem that if you had reliable security at all entrances, it would be almost impossible to pull off.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:05 pm

renodante wrote:
The truth sadly maybe is that it's almost impossible to prevent things like this regardless of extra police staff at schools, extra tough gunlaws etc etc


It would seem that if you had reliable security at all entrances, it would be almost impossible to pull off.

There were armed guards at Columbine

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force

Fort Hood was a military base
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:32 pm

There were armed guards at Columbine


There was one. I stated "all entrances" and "reliable." That one armed guard obviously wasn't worth a damn, was he?

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force


Every university does. They are not able to be at every entrance, all the time. I didn't specify but I had in mind schools up to High School.

Fort Hood was a military base


I was specifically talking about schools. And being that just about everyone is armed at a military base, much of the time, it really wouldn't apply there, would it?
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby falconagain » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:22 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:ChiChi does have a bit of a point here, if your going to have school staff etc armed then this is going to have to be mentioned in the staff members job description.

Imagine a Dinner ladies job description: prepare school meals, serve children, keep canteen clean, take on armed killer in threat of attack to school. If that last bit was in my job description i would maybe think twice about taking the job and for sure would be asking for one hell of a wage rise if i were to put my life on the line for the job! after all that's what your asking for, someone to maybe die for the job!

When ever something bad happens there's always the government knee jerk response to public demand ending in more endless new laws applied, more government speading to counter something rare and as different events happen you just end up building up higher government spending. I'm not just talking about school killings here.

The truth sadly maybe is that it's almost impossible to prevent things like this regardless of extra police staff at schools, extra tough gunlaws etc etc


Actually there is already ads like. Back in 2002 I saw the job section in Miami, there was an ad that required
a speaker for a school to talk about non violence and in the job description it was mentioned that you received a used bullet vest as part of the clothes that you used during work. It is pretty obvious that
they had a lot of difficulty filling in that position.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby americorps » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:42 pm

renodante wrote:
There were armed guards at Columbine


There was one. I stated "all entrances" and "reliable." That one armed guard obviously wasn't worth a damn, was he?

Virginia Tech has their own armed police force


Every university does. They are not able to be at every entrance, all the time. I didn't specify but I had in mind schools up to High School.

Fort Hood was a military base


I was specifically talking about schools. And being that just about everyone is armed at a military base, much of the time, it really wouldn't apply there, would it?



Pouring guns on this problem is like pouring gasoline to put out a fire.
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby renodante » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Pouring guns on this problem is like pouring gasoline to put out a fire.


That's catchy
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Re: the second amendment in action

Postby rama0929 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:50 pm

falconagain wrote:
The essence of America is freedom for its law abiding citizens. This is not supplied by the
current system. What we haw now is freedom and safety for the criminals. What would
be the point of a system where the criminal feels safer than the law abiding citizen.
Chaos.


It's the best we can do with what we've got.

The idea that the current system somehow allows freedom and safety for criminals is laughable in and of itself.

The point of torture is never revenge but work as a deterrent for the actions of criminals.


In tv & movies? Sure... In the real world, not so much.

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