Is living in Peru (still) cheap???

[chi chi]

We all noticed that prices in Peru are increasing rapidly.

Combined with the devaluating EURO and dollar, Peru is no longer a cheap place to hang around.

Nowadays, you can live cheaper in some European countries and some states in the US.

Last year we were visiting friends in LA and they bought a flat and paid less money than you would pay for a similar place in Lima. The prices at the (latino) supermarket were similar. (many products were even cheaper).

Last december, we were in Ireland. (used to be a very expensive country) Renting a small flat in Dublin costs the same as in Lima. A lunch in a decent place was almost the same as in Dublin.
We stayed at a B and B place that had room similar of a decent hotel in Lima and the roomrate was the same.

[Arroz con Pollo]

LA? Hahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7Te9Q8KBk

[Sergio Bernales]

I agree it's getting more expensive, but then often the problem is comparing like for like. Even now the cheapest parts of New York or London work out more expensive than the nicest parts of Lima. But then each benefits from having things that the other doesn't. So direct comparisons are very difficult to make.

When you go to cheaper western cities with a lower cost of living, then it's possible to make better comparisons and the cost advantage of living in Peru, especially Lima, has certainly dropped. Five years or six years ago a two-bedroom 90 sq metre apartment in Miraflores would have set you back about $70,000, while in many parts of the States and Northern Europe, it was almost impossible to find a place for that price. Now, that same two bedroom apartment in Lima can easily cost you around $200,000, in Europe and the States, not only have prices dropped, but the fall in exchange rates has exacerbated the difference. Since 2007, in San Isidro, for example, house prices have doubled in soles, but tripled in dollars.

A cheap area of Lima is still a lot cheaper than a cheap area of Chicago or Manchester, or almost any other large second tier big western city, but if you have high expectations of living in Miraflores or San Isidro for the same price as a cheap area of a big western city, then the value is definitely no longer there.

[Sergio Bernales]

LA? Hahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7Te9Q8KBk

Liked the video, but it still looked better than a lot of places I know in Lima.

[bobg]

THE COST OF LIVING IS GOING OUT OF SIGHT ! I AM A RETIRED PERSON, MY HOME IS IN NORTHERN FLA.
WHEN I RETIRED 10 YEARS AGO WE BOUGHT A APARTMENT IN CHACARILLA FOR 100,000 DOLLARS MY WIFE AND I COME AND STAY FOR 3 MONTHS A YEAR. i HAVE SEEN THE COST GO UP AND UP, FROM FOOD TO TAXI'S,
AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. THE DOLLAR IS DOWN, THE SOL IS UP, AND IT NO LONGER IS A BARGAIN. i HAVE SOLD THE APARTMENT FURNITURE AND ALL AND WILL RETURN, TO PERU, STILL, BUT STAYING AT A RENTAL OR FRIENDS. O YA THE TRAFFIC IS WORSE ALL THE TIME, THE LIVING IN THE US IS MUCH CHEAPER AND EASIER,
YOU CAN BUY A HOUSE WITH A POOL, AND LARGER THEN YOU CAN GET HERE FOR LESS .FOOD IS COMPARABLE
GAS IS CHEAPER, CARS ARE CHEAPER, RENT IS CHEAPER, NOT AS MUCH BUREAUCRATIC B.S.

[TShadow]

A cheap area of Lima is still a lot cheaper ...

Sure, but I certainly would not like to live there, it's simply a terrible living. Cheap areas in Italy where I lived are still looking way better than even not so cheap areas in Lima.

If you have Dollars and Euros your living cost will increase twofold because of fast rising prices here and you constantly get less value for your money. What is left costing less: eating in restaurants, food, taxis, public transportation, services. Housing is getting more expensive than in Europe and USA, don't even speak about buying an used car. Besides all that the air in Lima is terrible, who has allergic problems lives like in hell, the traffic is chaotic, often normal in big cities but due to the criminal driving here, it's a lot worse.

Living here is safe? That depends. You could live here for years without a problem, on the other hand all family members from my girl friend, including her, have been assaulted in the last 2 years, even at gun point, and they certainly don't walk around looking rich and are peruvians. Have lost the count of how many of my german friends have been robed.

Ok, there is a big job crisis in many countries in Europe, also to some extend in USA, but how come that some of my italian friends went to USA and found well paid jobs there. Others went to to Spain, and opened shops there, and my son just opened one in Rimini investing a whole lot less than what he would have needed here in Lima to open something similar. So Peru is cheap? No way.

[tupacperu]

Our Plans are on hold. We have the property in Pimentel (on hold), not only is the cost of living in Peru expensive, the airline tickets are ridiculous (up 33%). I used to get RT ticket for lees than $800 (LAN). Now they run almost $1200-$1500. With my new son turning 2 in August , another $1200 ontop, I have put all Peru Plans on hold. My 3000 sq ft home in Phoenix AZ ( $160K purchased in 4/2011) was cheaper than buying in Peru ), Phoenix real estate has gone up in the last 2 years, almost 40%. Home now worth $218K. Peru is no longer an option. We put our property on hold for the next 12+ months to see what the outlook is for Peru. We may sell or hold it for long term investment.

Airlines tickets are so high because investors/speculators are coming in and are buying up everything in sight, new companies are opening offices rapidly. Peru scares me with such rapid growth (what goes up must come down). The banks are trying to control the HOT Dollars from foreigner investors. They have just recently kicked up the banks reserves again last month.

$5000-$6000 (price of ticket for 4 people) can be better spent in a savings for retirement or paying down my mortgage in Phoenix, maybe a vacation in the Carribean

[tupacperu]

LA? Hahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7Te9Q8KBk

Liked the video, but it still looked better than a lot of places I know in Lima.

Saw the video, but right next to Canoga Park is an expensive neighborhood Woodland Hills and east of that Sherman Oaks and Studio City. So, that is only one aspect of The San Fernando Valley. lol

a few miles over the mountains (south) Malibu also

[panman]

Airlines tickets are so high because investors/speculators are coming in and are buying up everything in sight, new companies are opening offices rapidly. Peru scares me with such rapid growth (what goes up must come down). The banks are trying to control the HOT Dollars from foreigner investors. They have just recently kicked up the banks reserves again last month.

$5000-$6000 (price of ticket for 4 people) can be better spent in a savings for retirement or paying down my mortgage in Phoenix, maybe a vacation in the Carribean

Once you're here, from my experience, it's even more frightening trying to visit friends and relatives back home.
Try checking the price of a flight from where ever you live to Lima and then compare the same dates with the same company, for a flight fom Lima to where ever you live. I've found them on occasion to be more than double.

[Bobby]

If you earn in USD or EUR your purchase power in Lima has decreased no less than 20% over the last 10 years and Lima (not overall Peru) has become quite expensive

Now when you compare rentals, food, etc. you have to make meaningful comparisons. For example you have to compare capital versus capital cities or really important cities (e.g. Lima, Paris, Madrid, Rome, New York, Chicago, Rio, etc.) and not Lima versus minor cities of Europe or the US.

Renting in Madrid, Paris, Rome, New York is still way above renting an apartment in Lima! Same for eating in restaurants. Rental and food in Trujillo's midlle class neighborhoods is probably still more affordable for US and EUR exapts than in Denver, Phoenix, Salamanca, Calgary, Torino, Hamburg, etc.

[tupacperu]

If you earn in USD or EUR your purchase power in Lima has decreased no less than 20% over the last 10 years and Lima (not overall Peru) has become quite expensive

Now when you compare rentals, food, etc. you have to make meaningful comparisons. For example you have to compare capital versus capital cities or really important cities (e.g. Lima, Paris, Madrid, Rome, New York, Chicago, Rio, etc.) and not Lima versus minor cities of Europe or the US.

Renting in Madrid, Paris, Rome, New York is still way above renting an apartment in Lima! Same for eating in restaurants. Rental and food in Trujillo's midlle class neighborhoods is probably still more affordable for US and EUR exapts than in Denver, Phoenix, Salamanca, Calgary, Torino, Hamburg, etc.

Lima, Paris, Madrid, Rome, New York, Chicago, Rio? Lima is not in Comparison with these cities (got a long way to go infrastructure-wise). For sure the Olympics would not be held in LIMA (LOL).

Chiclayo/Trujillo is not cheap. around $1000 per M2, rents are $600+ in a middle class neighborhood in Chiclayo/Trujillo unless you want a 50m2 apartment. My mortgage in Phoenix is around that price.

example: http://www.adoos.com.pe/post/26809044/a ... o_amoblado ($900)

[bobg]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sr=1&ct ... ecdb39633a

[Bobby]

Lima, Paris, Madrid, Rome, New York, Chicago, Rio? Lima is not in Comparison with these cities (got a long way to go infrastructure-wise). For sure the Olympics would not be held in LIMA (LOL).

Chiclayo/Trujillo is not cheap. around $1000 per M2, rents are $600+ in a middle class neighborhood in Chiclayo/Trujillo unless you want a 50m2 apartment. My mortgage in Phoenix is around that price.

As you might know (maybe not) all serious economic studies/reports compare capitals versus capitals for standard of living comparisons in major cities (you compare apples with apples, not with oranges). If we are talking about Lima (9 million inhabitants, capital of a country, economic heart of Peru, etc.) a comparison with Phoenix or Sevilla is interesting for personal life experience but not in order to to have a global picture of cost of living in Lima and/or Peru as in the OP.

600 USD for a middle class neighborhood apartment in Chicalyo? LOL! TheTrujillo adoos ad you link to shows your bad faith and leads to a biased analysis. I happen to know very well Trujillo and that ad concerns:

- California: an upper middle class and high income neighborhoodalong with San Andres and El Golf (In Peru it would match a "A and B economical standards) .
- The apartment is for short term rentals and is furnished.
- In Chiclayo you can easily find apartments of 50m2 for less than 300 USD (search Adoos, Urbania, etc.)

That being said I agree that life in Peru (when you earn in USD or EUR) life has become more expensive (much more in Lima and Cusco than in the rest of the country).

Cheers

[bobg]

In Chiclayo you can easily find apartments of 50m2 for less than 300 USD (search Adoos, Urbania, etc.)

Where in the usa do you even find a place that small ?
Peru isn't progressing in the correct way, infra-structure is horrible it doesn't even have a train! the buses keep falling off of the mountains 2 hours from Miraflores to Chacorilla no way ! new apartments higher prices smaller rooms, comparing living in cities is ok for world wide comparisons , but there are many places in the usa where people don't live in the big cities , not like Peru if you live outside the big cities you don't have the advantages , in the usa it's different.

[Bobby]

Where in the usa do you even find a place that small ?

NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. In Nothern Europe many urban (i.e., city) families have a living space of no more than 50 to 80 m2

Peru isn't progressing in the correct way, infra-structure is horrible it doesn't even have a train! the buses keep falling off of the mountains 2 hours from Miraflores to Chacorilla no way ! new apartments higher prices smaller rooms, comparing living in cities is ok for world wide comparisons , but there are many places in the usa where people don't live in the big cities , not like Peru if you live outside the big cities you don't have the advantages , in the usa it's different.
Keep in mind that Peru is a developping country so don't except high standards in infrastructure! According to many international organizations Latin Amercia is a region with high income inequality and that explains in part why when you make country comparisons Peru is still cheaper to live (for expats) than in a developped countries. In Lima, Buenos Aires, Rio, etc. at least 8% (more or less 1 million people = size of a medium city) of the population has really high incomes. So don't be surprised to find "high" costs in housing and other services compared to medium and smaller sized US cities. Knowing this fact, still housing is quite affordable in San Isidro, Surco, Miraflores, La Molina (where high income people live) compared to equivalent metropolitan areas in NYC, Boston, London, Paris, etc. standards

[bobg]

IN THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES AND CITIES, YOU GET MORE OF WHAT YOU PAY FOR (INFRA-STRUCTURE) THE PEOPLE WITH MONEY LIVE AND EAT THE SAME ALL OVER THE WORLD THE AVERAGE PERSON IS WHERE YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE COMPARISON. A 300,00 DOLLAR APT (PERU) IS NOT THE SAME FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON ELSEWHERE, (USA) 300,000 WILL GET YOU A HELL OF A LOT MORE, WITHOUT THE BUILT IN HARDSHIPS OF A DEVELOPING COUNTRY, BEFORE, THE LEADERS OF PERU WERE ROBBER BARRENS, PERU USED BE A ONE OF THE MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN SOUTH AMERICA.

[Lloyd007]

Lima is much more expensive than it used to be and many things are now astronomically priced; food, cars, good clothes, especially housing... but this is a capital city and a thriving one at that, so it is to be expected, I guess.

Meanwhile, public transport and gas seem to be on a plataeu and haven't changed much for several years which is just about the only thing that has not changed much.

[Chavin]

While Bobby's right that about 8% of Lima has a high income relative to the rest of Peru, what's more pertinent is how many of Lima's residents have an income that's equal to the average income (adjusted for PPP) to London, Paris, Madrid, New York, etc. The figures are pretty low. It's about 8% of people in Lima. In other words, 8% of people in Lima earn the average median wage, adjusted for price differences (PPP) of a major US or European city. As for the super rich in Lima, yes they exist, but there's not many. And as for those earning $100,000 or more in Lima, it's less than 1% of the population.

Adding all those together with those who are very poor and those on average or below average incomes, of $5,000 per head (up to $10,000 at PPP), Lima's economy is less than one tenth the size of London's or New York's. To put it another way, Lima's consumer purchasing power is equivalent to a London or New York of 700,000 people. London's economy alone at about £600 billion ($920 billion) is about three times the size of the whole of Peru's, which is $320 billion adjusted for PPP (Peru's nominal GDP is $200 billion). And that's ignoring its vast hinterland of commuter towns in the southeast of England.

Now, if we add into the equation such things as quality of life, cultural richness, education, etc, Lima falls down again compared to any major capital. Its open spaces and areas of greenery are tiny compared to London or New York. Think about Hyde Park, Central Park, Hampstead Heath, there's nothing like that here. And as for the museums, the theatres, the cinemas, etc, again it's not even in the same ball park...

That is not to criticise Lima. It has its unique qualities that make everyone have a reason for liking it. It's a coastal city with nice restaurants, friendly people, a growing economy, but comparing it to a major capital city like London or New York, or Tokyo is just pointless. The things you have to think about other than price of land per square metre are the quality of life, cultural richness, its economy, employment opportunities, income levels, freedom of expression, universities, schools, crime levels, level of corruption, strength of public institutions, air quality, quality of medical coverage, public transport, infrastructure, etc...

If you want to consider Lima in terms of a Western city, you have to think of it as a small enclave of 500,000 people earning average and above average western wages, surrounded by a vast pool of cheap labour, or 7½ million people earning between a few dollars a day up to about $10,000 a year. So economically it's the size of Baltimore or Nashville in the States, or Manchester or Glasgow in the UK. But in terms of public transport, infrastructure, schools, medical coverage, etc, as I mentioned before, it lags behind. Perhaps with continued ecomonic growth, increased social spending, better infrastructure and public transport and a strengthening of its institutions, in ten or 20 years, it could look a lot better.

In terms of living here, is it better than the west? Well, that's very much a personal choice and for some people here, life offers a richness that they find lacking in other places in the world, But aside from what you want in life, for most people in Lima the big issue is how much money you've got and how far will it go? If you have a an average US or European income, you really need to think about what is cheaper here. Property in the nicer areas of Lima is no longer particularly cheap, so unless you're coming from London, New York, etc, it looks overpriced for what you get. So what's cheap to a westerner apart from taxis, haircuts and bus fares are usually anything that involves using labour?

To have a good life in Lima, you really need to be able to take advantage of its cheap labour. Having 24-hour porters in your building, getting a man to do your gardening, or paint your house or fix your boiler, these are all things that cost less. But things that the rich do like travel by air, drive a nice car, buy expensive electronic products, these all cost slightly more or a lot more than in Europe or the States. Owning a car, for one, is much more expensive. There are no true budget airlines to other parts of Latin America. Buying a ticket to the US or Europe can cost double what a consumer in Europe or the States will pay for the same ticket to Peru. To balance everything out, that means that with an income of say $50,000 a year, catching lots of taxis, having a nanny, a maid and a gardener and buying a decent sized house with a swimming pool on the outskirts of Lima is the real advantage of living in Lima.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/marketpl ... london.htm
http://www.uncsbrp.org/economicdevelopment.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Peru

[falconagain]

Frozen wages, rampant drug production (We have already displaced Colombia), the worst
infrastructure of Latin America, malnutrition, pollution increasing above and beyond international
standards, lack of planning, lack of security, money speculation, money laundry.

So far I do not understand how growth can be sustained under those conditions.

[tupacperu]

Just as I suspected on the Airfare. Everyone is flocking to Lima, running up prices.


After a seven-year absence, American Airlines is again flying the skies between Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport and Lima, Peru.

“Peru’s economy continues to expand and we’ve seen increased travel demand to that market, as well as throughout Latin America,” Chuck Schubert, American’s vice president of network planning, said in American’s announcement.

[falconagain]

So now that I have moved to Dallas, I have to find out that I am closer to Peru thanks
to American Airlines.

[richorozco]

Agree with everything mentioned above, BUT you can't compare Lima to a Manhattan or LA. It is impossible to compare for the reasons that everybody mentions (quality of life, security, cultural experience, infrastructure, etc...).

The reason you can't compare is that Peru does not have industries such as Auto MFG, Cell Phone MFG, Airplane MFG, etc.... If a country doesn't have such industries, then you don't get people who go to school to become electrical engineers, industrial engineers, etc...

Peru has professionals such as civil engineers and they work on buildings, bridges, etc.... but there is no industry that supplies equipment to the rest of the world (Think Korea....Samsung, Hyundai, etc...). Without that, there will always be poverty in Peru. Along with this poverty comes crime.

[tupacperu]

Those looking for the Cheapest Cities to live in the USA:

http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real ... index.html

[Bobby]

http://www.numbeo.com is quite an accurate (not perfect but still helpful) comparing device. And statistically US and EUR cities are more expensive to live in than Lima.

[chi chi]

So now that I have moved to Dallas, I have to find out that I am closer to Peru thanks
to American Airlines.

And thanks to American Airlines, Billy Bob's at the Stockyards is closer to Peru.