Constant Negativity

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simperu2012
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Constant Negativity

Postby simperu2012 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:55 pm

For the few years that I've lived in Peru, I've noticed an overwhemling sense of negativity with Peruvians that I come into contact with. Being Brazilian and having grown up in the U.S., I've been raised with very optimistc values. You know, "glass half full" type of stuff. But here it seems like people expect the worst, plan for it, and are satisfied with it. At first I thought it was just my wife, then I met her family, my neighbors, the storeowners, the taxistas, and even the students I teach. Has anyone else experienced this?


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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby sbaustin » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:05 pm

Can you give a few examples?
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby simperu2012 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:21 pm

*My Students*
A lot of my students that are "cholitos" never see themselves getting an office job. Those are for the pitucos, according to them. When I encourage them to reach out, some laugh, others don't even try to. Once in awhile, I'll get a student who is positive and expects a bright future.

*In society*
Taxistas are usually up to date on current events, and from time to time I'll ask them what they think is a possible solution to something like corruption and the inefficency of Peruivan government. Most laugh and say that there isn't a solution. They've simply given up. If you ask them what's wrong with government, however, they'll talk for hours. Ask for a solution. Silence.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby SmartKitty » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:26 pm

simperu2012 wrote:For the few years that I've lived in Peru, I've noticed an overwhemling sense of negativity with Peruvians that I come into contact with. Being Brazilian and having grown up in the U.S., I've been raised with very optimistc values. You know, "glass half full" type of stuff. But here it seems like people expect the worst, plan for it, and are satisfied with it. At first I thought it was just my wife, then I met her family, my neighbors, the storeowners, the taxistas, and even the students I teach. Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes. And it's very depressing. Not all the Peruvians are like that but the majority, specially people from La Sierra. Sorry about your family, it's not easy to stay away from them.

Always ask where the people is from, Arequipa, la Sierra, they are not easy to deal with, la Selva has shamans and weird stuff, La Costa and el Norte del Peru are the best, make friends, people from la Costa and el Norte are more open and more happy. Unfortunately Lima is invaded by the people from la Sierra, mostly very closed minded and negative.
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby chi chi » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:56 pm

SmartKitty wrote:Yes. And it's very depressing. Not all the Peruvians are like that but the majority, specially people from La Sierra. Sorry about your family, it's not easy to stay away from them.


It think that the cold and rainy weather in La Sierra has something to do with it. Also many people in Lima feel depressive because the either foggy or cold weather most of the year.

People in the North and La Selva are more positive and more laid back.

Same in Europe. I noticed a lot off difference between people from the North and the South. People from Spain complain less and think more positive about life than people from the let's say Germany.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby falconagain » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:10 pm

chi chi wrote:
SmartKitty wrote:Yes. And it's very depressing. Not all the Peruvians are like that but the majority, specially people from La Sierra. Sorry about your family, it's not easy to stay away from them.


It think that the cold and rainy weather in La Sierra has something to do with it. Also many people in Lima feel depressive because the either foggy or cold weather most of the year.

People in the North and La Selva are more positive and more laid back.

Same in Europe. I noticed a lot off difference between people from the North and the South. People from Spain complain less and think more positive about life than people from the let's say Germany.


I would love to be as negative as the Germans, always between the 3 first economies of the world,
loaded with money and still competitive even with the Chinese. Quality vs Quantity.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby SmartKitty » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:29 pm

chi chi wrote:
SmartKitty wrote:Yes. And it's very depressing. Not all the Peruvians are like that but the majority, specially people from La Sierra. Sorry about your family, it's not easy to stay away from them.


It think that the cold and rainy weather in La Sierra has something to do with it. Also many people in Lima feel depressive because the either foggy or cold weather most of the year.

People in the North and La Selva are more positive and more laid back.

Same in Europe. I noticed a lot off difference between people from the North and the South. People from Spain complain less and think more positive about life than people from the let's say Germany.

It's not quite right and no comparison with Europe at all. La Sierra is maybe, a little similar to the tribes in the mountain regions in South Europe, close minded attitude and living in clans,tribes, not developed society, very bad to strangers. You can't compare Serrano people to Germany Scandinavia or Poland.

Anybody who wants to learn a little about Serrano people attitude, please read Jose Maria Arguedas "Rios profundos" and watch the movie Madeinusa.
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby SmartKitty » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:31 pm

falconagain wrote:I would love to be as negative as the Germans, always between the 3 first economies of the world,
loaded with money and still competitive even with the Chinese. Quality vs Quantity.

Ha-ha-ha! Do you believe La Sierra people are like Germans? :lol:
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Hitoruna » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:54 pm

simperu you are brazilian, perhaps one of the most positive people on earth, you cant compare.

on the other hand perhaps you are right and a bit idealist. Me for example I am very positive in the things that I can accomplish with my own effort(advanced engineer, conversant in three languages, fine things in life) but very negative and has already given up on how we can "change" the goverment and solve those problems. I literally dont care.

And yes I am from the Sierra. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby simperu2012 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:08 pm

I'm happy for you. Most people have given up even on themselves. So good for you!
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Hitoruna » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:56 pm

Well it depends on the people.
I realize that being peruvian I know really few people and there are a lot of peruvians I dont know.

but from the people I know, peruvians, one is an executive in a top firm in Tokyo, other one is a diplomat in Italy, another one works on google, etc. I dont think they have given up.

In general I have the general concept that as my father say "like Bolognesi" we peruvians never give up. The ambulantes for example, over the years, they have been persecuted by the police, their products taken, thrown away and yet they are still there. People from the Sierra that FORTUNATELY comes to Lima, never give up. And some even succeed.

on the other hand you have to take into account what is settle up for people. People from my school for example, (all from the coastal areas) have in my view, settled up. I would hate to have their life. But perhaps they are happier than me. Who knows
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby richiecry » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:04 pm

Simperu....I have noticed the same thing. For me though, there was more of a difference between the people of Peru vs Panama...than Peru vs Brazil with regards to outlook. As a Canadian (and please I mean no offense to anyone...what I am about to state is simply MY opinion) who has lived amongst many Brazilians as well as having visited Brazil, Peru and Panama many times (most of them to Peru), I have noticed quite a few differences between the countries and people...expecially with regards to attitude. Brazilians for me are much more open and their attitude is generally more positive than Limenos but they also tend to be full of drama. Panamanians in other hand...are far lighter and optimistic than both (with less drama). I actually noticed this difference right away, the first time i visited Panama City (after Peru and Brazil). I do think though....that Chi Chi's point was good. You will find different experiences in different parts of the country...the jungle attitude is very different. One of the strange things though in my opinion...is that regardless of how negative Peru (or Lima) might be, there is a strong entrepenuerial spirit in Lima. I think it is a lot stronger there than in Canada for example.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby tomsax » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:53 am

simperu2012 wrote:For the few years that I've lived in Peru, I've noticed an overwhemling sense of negativity with Peruvians that I come into contact with. Being Brazilian and having grown up in the U.S., I've been raised with very optimistc values. You know, "glass half full" type of stuff. But here it seems like people expect the worst, plan for it, and are satisfied with it. At first I thought it was just my wife, then I met her family, my neighbors, the storeowners, the taxistas, and even the students I teach. Has anyone else experienced this?


You sound a but negative simperu2012. On behalf of North Europeans and people of the Peruvian Sierra, welcome to our world!
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby vivaperusurf » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:32 am

Well I can understand how it is easy to make a genralization like this, but the Peru I have been lucky enough to experience taught me to be more positive, more tranquilo! Although most of my time is spent in the northern areas. I did notice a different sentiment from the people in the southern areas, but I cant say it was a pervasive pessimism/negativity.

So I hope you dont let the negativity affect you too much. Hope that you can find ways to promote a positive attitude.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Ragnorak20 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:51 am

I noticed this as well. For instance, in some peruvian forums that I visited when the posters talk about someone with wealth and power having more privilege that they have or can, the would say " El que puede, puede." I understand that phrase could have different meanings but at least in the context that I seen it being used is from a pessimist perspective of someone who accepts somebody else having an unfair advantage over them.


For instance, I notice this phrase being used when there was a rich kid who bought tickets to see a football(soccer) match the day before, just because his family knew someone important. While everyone else had to do long lines to be able to get those tickets a week before.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby falconagain » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:48 am

Ragnorak20 wrote:I noticed this as well. For instance, in some peruvian forums that I visited when the posters talk about someone with wealth and power having more privilege that they have or can, the would say " El que puede, puede." I understand that phrase could have different meanings but at least in the context that I seen it being used is from a pessimist perspective of someone who accepts somebody else having an unfair advantage over them.


For instance, I notice this phrase being used when there was a rich kid who bought tickets to see a football(soccer) match the day before, just because his family knew someone important. While everyone else had to do long lines to be able to get those tickets a week before.


Like any other country there is a series of misconceptions that make society move backwards.
If one reads the local newspapers and national TV channels you will notice that there is a general
campaign to demonize most of the people that are either independent financially or rich.
What I wonder is, for any entrepreneur is quite difficult to set up a company and then to keep
it going while complying with all Peruvian regulations. But when you add the additional perk that
everybody complains and criticizes, wouldn't any normal Person simply move his move out of the
country towards investments that may provide the same satisfaction but without any complaints.

Recently (in the last 15 years) there used to be a company that paid $14,000 a year to Peruvians,
there was a change of ownership and one of the persons in management got total control.
As soon as the Person was given the position, all employees threatened to go on strike and started
to gossip in the most unkind ways about the family of the new owner.

The new owner wanted to keep the company going but due to the excess hassle, the new manager
simply negotiated the sale of the company to its foreign competitors with the purpose of close it
down. He also negotiated on the contract a time period of resuming activities within Peru that allowed
to stop employment of everybody involved in the company for at least a year.

There you can see the result of how Peruvian mentality backfires, they tried to pressure the person
by bullying him, he reacted like anybody and screwed them in such a way that their professional and
family lives were destroyed.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Ragnorak20 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:31 am

@falconagain

Interesting, then it works both ways. However, I was mostly referring to rich peruvians who were taking advantage of a situation and others just let it doing it because of their power/influence. In your example, you talk about someone who was qualified for the job and essential for the survival of others. It is not like he was going to exploit them. I think that peru should strive to become more egalitarian in the sense that the people who are the most qualified get the best jobs not the one's with privilege.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby falconagain » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:37 pm

Ragnorak20 wrote:@falconagain

Interesting, then it works both ways. However, I was mostly referring to rich peruvians who were taking advantage of a situation and others just let it doing it because of their power/influence. In your example, you talk about someone who was qualified for the job and essential for the survival of others. It is not like he was going to exploit them. I think that peru should strive to become more egalitarian in the sense that the people who are the most qualified get the best jobs not the one's with privilege.


The old system was power + influence + best qualified, then we got the communist (radicals and others)
that modified the system and now the people in charge have power + influence + least qualified.
Society survival is based on the survival of the fittest not on the survival of the stupid with the most
strength. I posted several examples in the forum. The agrarian reform (with a link to a recent book
explaining all the details that happened then) which placed the most powerful members of the communist
party in charge of the land with far and wide consequences until today and years to come, the glass of milk
program ( a program that started with the intention to feed the poor, but ended up making rich and corrupt
a bunch of women that continue to be paid today), the municipality over-payment program for trash collectors (I do not care how much trash you collect, your job is not worth $5000 a month), the current additional budgets for each Region due to the mining benefits (melting statues all over the country,
with politicians that have never attended any school).

So far we would need to dismantle the whole government in order to remove the excess privilege.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Hitoruna » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:03 pm

Ragnorak20 wrote:@falconagain

Interesting, then it works both ways. However, I was mostly referring to rich peruvians who were taking advantage of a situation and others just let it doing it because of their power/influence. In your example, you talk about someone who was qualified for the job and essential for the survival of others. It is not like he was going to exploit them. I think that peru should strive to become more egalitarian in the sense that the people who are the most qualified get the best jobs not the one's with privilege.


what you describe I wouldnt call it egalitarian but meritocratic.

Which I agree.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Hitoruna » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:05 pm

The old system was as bad as the new one. It was never the best qualified.

what is required is basically meritocracy.


falconagain wrote:
Ragnorak20 wrote:@falconagain

Interesting, then it works both ways. However, I was mostly referring to rich peruvians who were taking advantage of a situation and others just let it doing it because of their power/influence. In your example, you talk about someone who was qualified for the job and essential for the survival of others. It is not like he was going to exploit them. I think that peru should strive to become more egalitarian in the sense that the people who are the most qualified get the best jobs not the one's with privilege.


The old system was power + influence + best qualified, then we got the communist (radicals and others)
that modified the system and now the people in charge have power + influence + least qualified.
Society survival is based on the survival of the fittest not on the survival of the stupid with the most
strength. I posted several examples in the forum. The agrarian reform (with a link to a recent book
explaining all the details that happened then) which placed the most powerful members of the communist
party in charge of the land with far and wide consequences until today and years to come, the glass of milk
program ( a program that started with the intention to feed the poor, but ended up making rich and corrupt
a bunch of women that continue to be paid today), the municipality over-payment program for trash collectors (I do not care how much trash you collect, your job is not worth $5000 a month), the current additional budgets for each Region due to the mining benefits (melting statues all over the country,
with politicians that have never attended any school).

So far we would need to dismantle the whole government in order to remove the excess privilege.
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby falconagain » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:16 pm

Meritocracy in Peru ??? Stop eating the 1 sol ceviches.!!!!

8)
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby Hitoruna » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:45 am

falconagain wrote:Meritocracy in Peru ??? Stop eating the 1 sol ceviches.!!!!

8)



Talking about constant negativity... :roll:
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Re: Constant Negativity

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:28 am

simperu2012 wrote: *In society*
Taxistas are usually up to date on current events, and from time to time I'll ask them what they think is a possible solution to something like corruption and the inefficency of Peruivan government. Most laugh and say that there isn't a solution. They've simply given up. If you ask them what's wrong with government, however, they'll talk for hours. Ask for a solution. Silence.


Very interesting comments.

The above example is part of the society and is very common to find this kind of negative comments about peruvian government.

I wouldn't call this "negativism" per se ; on the contrary it is "critisism" . The critisim to the government is a sort of "national sport" You are going to listen it everywhere around , taxi drivers is an example, but also could be done at a meeting, at work, etc. You can see something similar in others latin-american societies so Peru is not the only one.

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