Annoyed with my "own kind"

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bryanav
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Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:46 am

I found that in living in Peru, I normally got more annoyed with Americans than I did with the Peruvian differences... and now that I am home, some of the stereo-types that people have here about hispanic people drive me crazy to no end. I'm certainly not blind to Peruvian faults, but for whatever reason, its easier for me to forgive or excuse a Peruvian than it is the American. So heres a few things that got under my skin... feel free to add your own so that the next time I am in Peru, I will be sure NOT to do those things.

"OMG, They are soooooo poooooor."- I understand that many of the Peruvians are in need, but I hate it when ever people from here act like middle class Lima is like the jungle of Peru. Come on, its not THAT bad.

Taking a picture with unknown locals- This isn't really a big deal in the touristy spots, but I've been to some places in the mountains where a "stray American" will go crazy overboard with taking pics of people doing their daily grind. It's like "Hey, look at how weird this lady cooks, get a pic of that!" and that poor lady is just doing what she does everyday. I also don't like it when people take pics with a bunch of children that they don't know so that they can post it to their facebook and look like a saint.

Feeling entitled to everything and taking advantage of Peruvian friends- I know that we get alot of attention because of how we look, but you shouldn't act like some sort of celebrity. And I don't like when I see peruvians bending over backwards to appease the americans every whim.

Anywho.. thats just a few. I'm sure that it may seem like I am being super negative or something, but this has just been my experiences. What are yours"?


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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby Alpineprince » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:26 pm

It is not limited to Peru or the USA, generally I find most people the world over pretty annoying. The advantage to living in a foreign country as a (English speaker) is I don't have to listen to them. For that matter, I could probably live in Ireland,Scotland or Australia as well!
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby ariel » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:30 pm

bryanav wrote:Feeling entitled to everything..


That pretty much sums up the perceived 'prima donna-ism '.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby chi chi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:32 pm

Alpineprince wrote: The advantage to living in a foreign country as a (English speaker) is I don't have to listen to them. For that matter, I could probably live in Ireland


Do you speak Gaelic?
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby falconagain » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Misconceptions is a two way street. Peruvians also have a lot of ideas and entitlements about the
United States that do not make sense. But still they keep thinking that way in face of the truth.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:11 pm

bryanav wrote: I'm certainly not blind to Peruvian faults, but for whatever reason, its easier for me to forgive or excuse a Peruvian than it is the American.

Why?
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:56 pm

"For whatever reason"
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:59 pm

bryanav wrote:"For whatever reason"

"Bad" explanation...! :?
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby LiveInPeru » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:05 pm

Alpineprince wrote:...generally I find most people the world over pretty annoying.


Yes.

The most annoyed I ever was with my fellow Americans was when I was staying in Nassau, Bahamas. When the people came in off the cruise ships, my god... the loud talking, the ignorant, rude behavior... just made me feel embarrassed to be associated with them.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby chi chi » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:36 pm

LiveInPeru wrote:
Alpineprince wrote:...generally I find most people the world over pretty annoying.


Yes.

The most annoyed I ever was with my fellow Americans was when I was staying in Nassau, Bahamas. When the people came in off the cruise ships, my god... the loud talking, the ignorant, rude behavior... just made me feel embarrassed to be associated with them.


Groups of tourist are everywhere the same. They think that because they spend money and are on vacation then the locals have to bend for them and they treat the locals as trash.

Fair play to the locals that grossly overcharge the ones that don't behave.
Last edited by chi chi on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby rubble » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:36 am

Sniffs........

"Fair play to the locals that the assault and rob them. Just to teach them some manners."

...ignores bait and swims on.....
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:40 pm

chi chi wrote:
LiveInPeru wrote:
Alpineprince wrote:...generally I find most people the world over pretty annoying.


Yes.

The most annoyed I ever was with my fellow Americans was when I was staying in Nassau, Bahamas. When the people came in off the cruise ships, my god... the loud talking, the ignorant, rude behavior... just made me feel embarrassed to be associated with them.


Groups of tourist are everywhere the same. They think that because they spend money and are on vacation then the locals have to bend for them and they treat the locals as trash.

Fair play to the locals that grossly overcharge the ones that don't behave.


This is probably most true. Maybe it's not just Americans, just tourist everywhere. People who actually lived in Peru, were pretty cool. But people passing through for 2 weeks or so drove me crazy. Also, to be fair... I have been "that" tourist..., before I knew better.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:13 pm

What an accumulation of stereotypes without sound statements of grounds.

chi chi wrote:Groups of tourist are everywhere the same. They think that because they spend money and are on vacation then the locals have to bend for them and they treat the locals as trash.

This is a dumb generalization.

Apart from that: Locals quite often prefer tourists. Why? Because they leave their money in their town and than LEAVE the town - end of the story! – wheras Expats stay - and they are not always that compatible with local conceptions.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby rubble » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:20 pm

I'm curious.

"Fair play to the locals that assault and rob them. Just to teach them some manners."

Becomes

"Fair play to the locals that grossly overcharge the ones that don't behave."

Did the Mods or the poster change the content?
If someone is going to post stupid comments they should stand by them.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:13 am

@rubble

Not sure what your meaning. I'll still stand by my stupid comment that I find Americans more annoying in a foreign country than I do Peruvians or where ever else I am. Chi Chi asserted that maybe it's just tourist. I can agree, because most tourist I know to be Americans.

"Did the Mods or the poster change the content?
If someone is going to post stupid comments they should stand by them."

I'm a pretty open person...and to me everything is up to debate. It would be pretty closeminded to post something and not fairly consider what another is saying. :D <--- (smiley face added so that you know that the tone if this comment is light)
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby rubble » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:47 am

bryanav

My post was not directed at you.

Chi Chi had originally written;

"Fair play to the locals that assault and rob them. Just to teach them some manners."

which was then changed to;

"Fair play to the locals that grossly overcharge the ones that don't behave."

I was questioning who had changed it - the Mods or the poster.

The stupid comment remark was aimed at the "fair play........manners" post.

Hope thaty clears any misunderstanding up.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:57 am

Ah okay. I had actually read a few other posts and noticed that there may be a Chi Chi war going on that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for clearing it up!
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby Josh2U » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:05 pm

Just assume that whenever Chi Chi makes a comment there is a legion of trolls waiting to pounce.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Josh2U wrote:Just assume that whenever Chi Chi makes a comment there is a legion of trolls waiting to pounce.


Josh2U, not just people trolling chi chi, but people have said there are even expat's that troll the forum with blog postings! I'm not sure, but there are definitely annoying people everywhere, wouldn't you agree?
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby chi chi » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:20 pm

I don't like groups of tourists.

Lone travellers are nicer and behave better.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:27 pm

Cultivating stereotypes and generalizations
such as
..but for whatever reason, its easier for me to forgive or excuse a Peruvian than it is the American.¨¨
¨Groups of tourist are everywhere the same.¨
¨Lone travellers are nicer and behave better.¨


is as intelligent and reasonable as saying¨
¨all Americans are fat¨
¨all Peruvians are lazy¨
¨all Germans are Nazis¨
´all women are untrue¨
¨the sky is always blue¨
etc.
etc.
etc.



By the way: I like black Coffee, paltas and Pisco - and I don't know why. So what?????????? :shock:
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby falconagain » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:26 am

A person needs to learn the difference between stereotypes which are based in
something false. And generalizations that are based on truth.

If it is a generalization based on truth. You are totally justified to act on that information.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby tomsax » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:07 am

But if your truth is itself based on stereotypes then you are in fact arriving at generalisations based on stereotypes. Attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes. Generaly, there is not enough rejection of stereotypes on this forum!
Tom
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:25 am

@gringito:
"..but for whatever reason, its easier for me to forgive or excuse a Peruvian than it is the American.¨¨"
Thats not a stereotype... just a fact. I didn't say that Peruvians are more trustworthy or forgiveable than Americans... simply that I (ME) find it easier to excuse and forgive Peruvians than Americans and that certain things that Americans do in Peru drive me(I) nuts.

I think that people are quick to jump to extremes and ask if/ or... when the answer is both/and. Does everything have to be one extreme or the other?

Saying that "Lone travelers are nicer" would be as intellegent as saying "all americans are fat" is as extreme as saying "If you don't hate muslims, you must be a terrorist." Your jumping to conclusions that simply aren't there. It's kinda hypocritical.

Do I find big groups of tourist annoying? yes.
Could a big group of tourist not annoy me? yes.

No one said that every single tourist that ever lived was annoying. That would just be dumb. But truth is... in my experience (which is all I really have) many (most) are annoying. Thats not stereo-typing.. it just is what it is. It's okay to not be politically correct.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby falconagain » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:25 pm

tomsax wrote:But if your truth is itself based on stereotypes then you are in fact arriving at generalisations based on stereotypes. Attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes. Generaly, there is not enough rejection of stereotypes on this forum!


I think that if the truth in regards to drugs and terrorism is based on what the government, army and other governments are saying. Then all moral bases are covered and they can wipe out that place out of the face of the earth without any regrets. And even human rights can be voided (as it was done in the
past) in order to achieve the proper objectives.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby falconagain » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:40 pm

There is actually two annoyances that are shown in every Hollywood movie that
make many people to be biased against Americans.

- Food fight. Coming from Peru where famine has been experienced several times
through the decades. Any Food fight shown in TV or the Theater is not funny. It is
not also insulting but also disrespectful.

- Breaking things after a nervous breakdown. While Peru has recently enjoyed
good economic conditions. There is still people that have to save for years and
under consume in order to afford many things. Seeing a person on TV, crashing
two cars, breaking a couple of TVs, and destroying a house. It is not drama
or comedy but downright stupidity.

There is more annoyances in the media but these two are some of the most visible.
While Peruvians are not more enlightened and have their savagery blunders. There
is no point for the extended repeat performance of stereotypes like that in the media.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby tomsax » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:39 pm

falconagain wrote:
tomsax wrote:But if your truth is itself based on stereotypes then you are in fact arriving at generalisations based on stereotypes. Attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes. Generaly, there is not enough rejection of stereotypes on this forum!


I think that if the truth in regards to drugs and terrorism is based on what the government, army and other governments are saying. Then all moral bases are covered and they can wipe out that place out of the face of the earth without any regrets. And even human rights can be voided (as it was done in the
past) in order to achieve the proper objectives.


I suppose you are talking about the "truth" you cling to that that almost all of the people of Apurimac are involved in the drug trade and are terrorist supporters - which has no basis in evidence and anyone who actually knows the region finds laughable. Of course the bit about exterminating people there is not funny. This isn’t actually based on any stereotype at all but some strange fantasy world that you have in your head!

Since you say your family is from there this puts a whole new perspective on being annoyed by your own kind!
Tom
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby falconagain » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:32 pm

tomsax wrote:
falconagain wrote:
tomsax wrote:But if your truth is itself based on stereotypes then you are in fact arriving at generalisations based on stereotypes. Attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes. Generaly, there is not enough rejection of stereotypes on this forum!


I think that if the truth in regards to drugs and terrorism is based on what the government, army and other governments are saying. Then all moral bases are covered and they can wipe out that place out of the face of the earth without any regrets. And even human rights can be voided (as it was done in the
past) in order to achieve the proper objectives.


I suppose you are talking about the "truth" you cling to that that almost all of the people of Apurimac are involved in the drug trade and are terrorist supporters - which has no basis in evidence and anyone who actually knows the region finds laughable. Of course the bit about exterminating people there is not funny. This isn’t actually based on any stereotype at all but some strange fantasy world that you have in your head!

Since you say your family is from there this puts a whole new perspective on being annoyed by your own kind!


According to the Peruvian National Police the provinces of Andahuaylas and Chincheros are the main hubs
for distribution of cocaine on a national level.

The VRAE (main region of cocaine production in Peru) is controlled by the remnants of Shining Path (Peruvian
Army 2011) and they keep close ties with Apurimac which is why they are the distribution hub for cocaine
on a national level. The majority of members of Shining Path are currently from Ayacucho, Apurimac and Huancavelica. A great part of the terrorists in Shining Path are related through family. Drugs are the
main industry and power on that region. Meaning that people work for terrorist and with terrorists on
a daily basis. It even shows on the current increasing income per capita without any visible foreign
investment.

Shining Path main support (all farmers in the region) was provided by Ayacucho, Apurimac and Huancavelica.

So far my imagination is grounded in reality.
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:32 pm

bryanav wrote:Your jumping to conclusions that simply aren't there. It's kinda hypocritical.

No, I am not hypocritical but surely critical, and you are the only one who is jumping to the conclusions you mentioned by yourself. I only gave some examples of stereotypes.
I kindly asked you to give a sound explanation why you can forgive Peruvians easier – and you just answered (or wrote in your initial posting) ”for whatever reason”. I.e. you cannot give a sound reason. It is just a feeling – or you did not even try to find it out.
I told you that I like coffee, and I also don`t know why.
These types of statements are so shallow that at least I am unable to sail on these waters.

bryanav wrote:I think that people are quick to jump to extremes and ask if/ or... when the answer is both/and. Does everything have to be one extreme or the other?

Nobody jumped to extremes.
However, I asked myself why a person should forgive a certain group of people easier or is more willing to forgive a certain group – while at the same time being more reluctant or unwilling to forgive another group of people.
In fact this smells like discrimination.
Naturally, we all have our personal preferences but “The Peruvians” or “The Americans” is a quantity of peolpe which is simply too big to speak about personal preferences or start with generalizations.
You should ask yourself WHY you have certain feelings. Then you may find out WHY you have certain opinions/reservations, prejudices etc. etc. and WHY you act as you do a) in certain situations or b) due to certain trigger mechanisms.

falconagain wrote:If it is a generalization based on truth. You are totally justified to act on that information.

WHICH truth precisely?
Your truth – or what you consider to be the truth?
My truth?
A third party truth?

tomsax wrote:But if your truth is itself based on stereotypes then you are in fact arriving at generalisations based on stereotypes.

Good argument, Tom. I fully agreee!!!
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby bryanav » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:49 am

@gringito I think we are misunderstanding each other. I'm cool as a cucumber over here- though after rereading my response, I can see where I look like a hot head.

I didn't answer why I could forgive Peruvians easier than Americans, because the list is so long and I didn't wanna get into it. It has alot to do with my Christian beliefs and experiences in Peru. I used to live/serve in a house that would take in short- term missionaries (mainly groups.) When they would come, I worked behind the scenes with my Peruvian friends, catering to their every whim. This including: cleaning up after them, cooking for them- and all the shopping included with that, taking them to different places, taking them shopping and yada yada yada. For people who supposedly had come to serve, they normally ended up being much more of a burden. They could have been less of a burden, had they not treated it like a resort and the Peruvians like maids. Not to mention the fact that they complained about every inconvience. I had been living without hot water for 6 months, only to have 2 grown men tell me how awful it was that they didn't have hot water in their bathrooms and how they couldn't handle it another night. After the trip, there would always be 300+ pics on Facebook of them posed with poor people or randomn children.. with comments like "Wow.. how selfless of you to go to Peru and help those people!" As a Christian, I hold Christians to a higher standard. (I recently wrote about short term missions .. do's and don'ts in my blog: bryanavillar.wordpress.com)

As an American, I hold Americans to a higher standard. (But not quite what I do a Christian American. Double Whammy.) Because I know that even people who grew of in the worst of places, can make something of themselves. (Look at JLo! ) Now, I am not saying that if a Peruvian killed my mama I would forgive him faster than an American. I am talking about forgiving/ excusing behavior. If a Peruvian does something annoying, I can just chalk it up to them being raised differently and cultural differences. Things that Peruvians annoy me with are things like standing too close... fussing me when I drink cold water in the winter...telling me that my complexion would be better if I didn't eat so much fried food.. I can just chalk that up. But if an American did those things, I would be like... what the heck?
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Re: Annoyed with my "own kind"

Postby gringito » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:40 pm

@bryanav:
Okaaaaaaaaaaaay + thank-you-cito!
THIS is an explanation which makes it more comprehensible for me why, according to your personal opinion and from a subjective point of view, you are more forgiving with (some) Peruvians.
Again, thank you.

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