proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

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proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:56 am

UH-OH................If this happens, Visa may be more difficult to enter Peru. Brazil has implemented this, not easy to enter Brazil.

Consensus project that proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same to Peru
Monday, September 30, 2013 | 4:06 pm

http://www.larepublica.pe/30-09-2013/co ... mo-al-peru
 
Currently, 168 countries require a tourist visa to the Peruvians, while only 99 countries Peru required the same.
The Foreign Relations Committee of Congress resumed the analysis of the bill posed to establish the principle of visa reciprocity, by which Peru will require foreigners who come to the country the same treatment of visa impose their home country for income of Peruvians.

The initiative, presented by the nationalist bloc, has the backing of the Foreign Ministry, through the Director of Consular Policy, Polo Carlos Castaneda, who said the project does not seek treatment hostile to foreigners but to improve diplomatic relations of Peru.

Polo Castañeda said that this is an act of dignity of a sovereign country should require treatment as an equal and receive the same level as the Peruvians abroad.

The explanatory memorandum accompanying the legislative proposal, currently totaling 168 countries require a tourist visa to the Peruvians. Meanwhile, only reach 99 countries whose citizens are required to Peru the same.

The opinion of the representative of Torre Tagle was well received by the legislator Daniel Abugattás, who stated that this position should be the common denominator of the highest government officials.


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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby TShadow » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:19 pm

In short words, if this law will pass, it would be for Peru of how to shoot yourself with a big gun in your toe.

Looks like a bad reaction to the veto of France who don't approve the Spanish proposal of a visa free entry for Peruvians and Colombians into the Schengen area.

Interesting the comments from the Peruvians in the newspaper. Looking somehow xenophobic to me.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby argidd » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:15 pm

I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:20 pm

argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby argidd » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:22 pm

That's how they do it in Chile, I believe a similar system should be implemented, not necessarily with those exact amounts.
But if you look at it from another perspective... if a family of 4 wants to visit the US, most likely they will have to pay $640 for visas (the only good thing is the US usually gives you visas for years); but visiting Europe is as expensive, and I think they give visas for a few months.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby argidd » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:27 pm

mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.


Mammamia, do you know what the difference is between being registered at immigrations upon arrival, and being given a visa upon arrival? I honestly don't see a difference, except maybe the payment issued for the visa...?
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:52 pm

argidd wrote:
mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.


Mammamia, do you know what the difference is between being registered at immigrations upon arrival, and being given a visa upon arrival? I honestly don't see a difference, except maybe the payment issued for the visa...?

There's a difference, argidd. For example, citizens of Vietnam, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan and a number of other countries, mostly in Asia, are required to apply for a visa to Peru at a Peruvian consulate which are not that numerous in Asia. So, I can just imagine how mad an average Brit or American can get lookig for a nearest consulate of Peru in their countries.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:43 pm

tupacperu wrote:The Foreign Relations Committee of Congress resumed the analysis of the bill posed to establish the principle of visa reciprocity, by which Peru will require foreigners who come to the country the same treatment of visa impose their home country for income of Peruvians.


With foreigners, they probably mean Americans, Australians and Canadians. And they will probably introduce an reprocity fee. Just like a few other Latin American countries do.
Europeans will still be able to travel visa free.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby TShadow » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:25 pm

With foreigners, they probably mean Americans, Australians and Canadians. And they will probably introduce an reprocity fee. Just like a few other Latin American countries do.
Europeans will still be able to travel visa free.


That's a presumption. They were generally talking about reciprocity. Chileans can enter Europe visa free, but only for 90 days. All however have the possibility to ask for an extension. Peruvians in the past could enter without a visa in Europe, but due to the fact that many of them remained illegal there, they revoked that possibility.

So this matter is not an easy one for the Peruvian government.

I'm also in other forums and found that many Expats do feel an increasing aversion against foreigners. Well educated and instructed Peruvians do not share this sentiments.

What many Peruvians won't accept, that beforehand asking for an equal treatment, they should clean things in their own country, then they can pretend to travel visa free like people from Chile,
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:32 pm

TShadow wrote:As a Tourist in Europe you only get a 90 days Visa, but you have the possibility to ask for an extension. Peruvians in the past could enter without a visa in Europe, but due to many of them remaining illegal there, they revoked that possibility.

So this matter is not an easy one for the Peruvian government.

I'm also in other forums and found that many Expats do feel an increasing aversion against foreigners. Well educated and instructed Peruvians do not share this sentiments.

What many Peruvians won't accept, that beforehand asking for an equal treatment, they should clean things in their own country, then they can pretend to travel visa free like people from Chile,


Shengen countries in Europe, cannot decide for themselves who needs a visa and who doesn't. They all have to implement the same rules.

I personally don't feel any aversion for me being a foreigner but I can understand that people that are new to Peru might feel that. But why do they feel aversion and in what way?
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby teamoperu » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:05 am

I suppose I could accept reciprocity in principle. But remember folks from the north visit Peru for tourism and most have little intention of being illegal immigrants, not a major problem, so giving a free visa on the air plane makes sense. Costs almost nothing and very little risk. In contrast, a Peruvian requesting visit to the north could well be hoping to jump the line and immigrate illegally and hence there is some work (and cost) required to check and process the application. Other than hurt pride, not sure what problem they are trying to solve by implementing costly visas? And what is the cost – benefit of doing so?
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby richiecry » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:16 am

This will hurt tourism in Peru no doubt. Peru is a special country which attracts all different types of tourists ranging from backpackers scrounging on part of a student loan to pay for part of their trip, to adventure tourists looking to backpack in the Andes to surfers on the west coast to rich tourists paying to stay in that expensive hotel by Machu Picchu. I do not know how much value is added to the Peruvian economy each year by tourism....but I would bet it is billions. I think that the Tourism Minister in Peru (is their one?) needs to make it clear to the people supporting such a bill, that there will be an impact. In fact...they should do a study before implementing the bill. That being said...I do agree with the sentiment of reciprocity. Entry or non Entry of people into countries in my mind should just be based on whether the person has a criminal record or whether they constitute a risk to the country being visited.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm

teamoperu wrote:I suppose I could accept reciprocity in principle. But remember folks from the north visit Peru for tourism and most have little intention of being illegal immigrants, not a major problem, so giving a free visa on the air plane makes sense. Costs almost nothing and very little risk. In contrast, a Peruvian requesting visit to the north could well be hoping to jump the line and immigrate illegally and hence there is some work (and cost) required to check and process the application. Other than hurt pride, not sure what problem they are trying to solve by implementing costly visas? And what is the cost – benefit of doing so?


Less Peruvians are interested in moving abroad. Especially, to work illegally. There are almost no jobs in Europe and the US. And Europeans and Americans are nowadays applying for jobs that they would even consider in the past. The governments are also doing much more checks at workplaces to make sure that there are no illegal workers.

I think that Peru should control people more that are coming to Peru. I am sure that a lot of foreign criminals are hiding in Peru. More and more burriers are getting caught so that means that not everybody is coming here with a genuine reason.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:29 am

well, despite chichis off topic post, lets get back to the subject at hand.

I have been here over 7 years, This comes up every couple of years. Usually as a reaction to another country raising visa fees or making it more complicated to enter.

I understand the reaction, however, each time it has come up in Peru before, they balanced the reciprocity for revenge and balanced it with the hit tourism will most likely take and decide they would rather have the visitors than the parity in visa status.

That could change at any time, but I think it is in Peru´s financial interest to keep a loose tourist visa policy.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:54 am

I think that Peru should control people more that are coming to Peru. I am sure that a lot of foreign criminals are hiding in Peru. More and more burriers are getting caught so that means that not everybody is coming here with a genuine reason.[/quote]



Well, Chi Chi, I'll have to disagree with you on this. The vast majority of those criminals you are talking about here come to Peru from the so called comunidad andina countries, especially Colombia and Ecuador. And you are right, a lot of them are hiding out in this country. And unlike other foreign nationals they don't even need a passport to enter Peru.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:02 pm

Brazil and Bolivia has this fee.. it has not affected tourism.
$100+ adds up , could replace losses in Tourism or People who seriously want to travel will pay it.

Brazil: According to the Consulate General of Brazil in Washington, D.C., the tourist visa fee for American citizens is now $140 (the previous fee was $130).

Bolivia: U.S. citizens must pay $135 USD to enter the country, and that includes all border crossings, not just when arriving by air as is the case for Chile. Canadians can enter the country and visit for 30 days without any charge, yet must pay $30 USD and obtain a Tourist Visa if they want to stay longer.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:06 pm

mammamia wrote:The vast majority of those criminals you are talking about here come to Peru from the so called comunidad andina countries, especially Colombia and Ecuador. And you are right, a lot of them are hiding out in this country. And unlike other foreign nationals they don't even need a passport to enter Peru.


Sure, the vast majority of criminals that are hiding in Peru are from other Latin American countries. But that doesn't mean that people from other countries shouldn't be checked. Many Northern American and European criminals are hiding in Latin America.

And because of the economic crisis, there are loads of Europeans and Americans coming to Latin America to look for jobs.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:07 pm

mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.


No longer will you be able to buy a ticket and board a plane. These types of visa probably will require a consular visit. Nearest Consul for me is Patterson, NJ and I live in the Northern suburbs of Philly (Practically a trip to NY).

Not many people are interested in Mexico. Tourism has practically fallen off the map becasue of crimes, drugs and decapitations. I have no desire to go to Mexico , I have gone many times over the years, but itis off my list.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:15 pm

richiecry wrote:This will hurt tourism in Peru no doubt. Peru is a special country which attracts all different types of tourists ranging from backpackers scrounging on part of a student loan to pay for part of their trip, to adventure tourists looking to backpack in the Andes to surfers on the west coast to rich tourists paying to stay in that expensive hotel by Machu Picchu. I do not know how much value is added to the Peruvian economy each year by tourism....but I would bet it is billions. I think that the Tourism Minister in Peru (is their one?) needs to make it clear to the people supporting such a bill, that there will be an impact. In fact...they should do a study before implementing the bill. That being said...I do agree with the sentiment of reciprocity. Entry or non Entry of people into countries in my mind should just be based on whether the person has a criminal record or whether they constitute a risk to the country being visited.


I do not think it will hurt tourism: Peru is expected to receive a total of 2.7 million visitors this year (2011).
(Multiply that by $100+)... lots of $$$$, even if it drops by half.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:18 pm

chi chi wrote:
teamoperu wrote:I suppose I could accept reciprocity in principle. But remember folks from the north visit Peru for tourism and most have little intention of being illegal immigrants, not a major problem, so giving a free visa on the air plane makes sense. Costs almost nothing and very little risk. In contrast, a Peruvian requesting visit to the north could well be hoping to jump the line and immigrate illegally and hence there is some work (and cost) required to check and process the application. Other than hurt pride, not sure what problem they are trying to solve by implementing costly visas? And what is the cost – benefit of doing so?


Less Peruvians are interested in moving abroad. Especially, to work illegally. There are almost no jobs in Europe and the US. And Europeans and Americans are nowadays applying for jobs that they would even consider in the past. The governments are also doing much more checks at workplaces to make sure that there are no illegal workers.

I think that Peru should control people more that are coming to Peru. I am sure that a lot of foreign criminals are hiding in Peru. More and more burriers are getting caught so that means that not everybody is coming here with a genuine reason.



This may be a part of the criminal background check that Peru has implemented, They may want to check on shady people who are gaining entry to Peru. Not too long ago there were a couple assasinations by foreigners and we all remember Vander Sloot and the guy who cut up his girlfriend and threw her body into the ocean in a suitcase. He was on probation and he entered Peru without being detected. Let's also not forget the guy from Puerto Rico who assassinated a member of the Peruvian Press. Of course the Butt Slasher - Mr Pimentel.

Peru is classified as one of the TOP 10 Fugitive Destinations:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/noto ... ons/8.html
Last edited by tupacperu on Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:26 pm

tupacperu wrote:I do not think it will hurt tourism: Peru is expected to receive a total of 2.7 million visitors this year (2011).
(Multiply that by $100+)... lots of $$$$, even if it drops by half.


Peru is still one of the cheapest countries in the world to travel too. So, people won't go to the Bahamas or Switzerland instead of Peru just to avoid a $100 visa fee. It will work out far more expensive.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:48 pm

tupacperu wrote:
mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.


No longer will you be able to buy a ticket and board a plane. These types of visa probably will require a consular visit. Nearest Consul for me is Patterson, NJ and I live in the Northern suburbs of Philly (Practically a trip to NY).

Not many people are interested in Mexico. Tourism has practically fallen off the map becasue of crimes, drugs and decapitations. I have no desire to go to Mexico , I have gone many times over the years, but itis off my list.

Don't say that! "Not many people are interested in Mexico". When was the last time you travelled to Mexico? I'm not talking about Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez and other places in the northen states close to US border. Those are nasty and dangerous. But the Yucatan Peninsula, Cozumel, the western coast are loaded with US, Canadian and European tourists. I worked there from 2003 through 2011 and can give you the statistics if you want. Cozumel International Airport (a small airport in a small island) operates flights to 5 airports in the US and 3 airports in Canada! Can you say the same about Cuszo airport? I doubt that.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby teamoperu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:33 pm

“Brazil and Bolivia has this fee.. it has not affected tourism.” Not true. I had a chance to go to Brazil, but did not because of the visa cost and headache to get one in time. Lost money to them.

Full disclosure – I have been to Brazil but without a visa – at Leticia-Tabatinga - that doesn't count because it is in the Três Fronteiras area :shock:
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:45 pm

yes, the statements that the visa fee has not effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.

and even anecdotally, I know many local expats that have not gone to brazil because of the hassle and cost of getting the visa.

To suggest that Peru would not see some drop in numbers, and that bolivia has not seen a drop due to reciprocity fees is simply not true.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:20 pm

americorps wrote:yes, the statements that the visa fee has not effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.


More and more Europeans are travelling to South America and they don't have to pay a reprocity fee. So, that compensates for the few Americans that won't travel to South America because of the reprocity fee.
Especially more Eastern Europeans are travelling to South America.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:32 pm

chi
chi wrote:
americorps wrote:yes, the statements that the visa fee has not
effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the
location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north
americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done
by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional
fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they
suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.


More and more Europeans are travelling to South America and they don't
have to pay a reprocity fee. So, that compensates for the few Americans
that won't travel to South America because of the reprocity fee.
Especially more Eastern Europeans are travelling to South
America.

Chi chi, what makes you so sure that this fee, if implemented, won't
apply to travellers from EU and Eastern Europe? I am Eastern European,
as you put it, and have to pay $52 to enter Bolivia, for example, though
hassle-free because they issue visa upon arrival. By the way, I know a
few Eastern Europeans who arrived in Peru recently and about 90% of them
are really disappointed with what they've seen here so far.
Last edited by mammamia on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:35 pm

mammamia wrote:I know a few Eastern Europens who arrived in Peru recently and about 90% of them are really disappointed with what they've seen here so far.


Disappointed about what? Food, accomdation, things to visit or the weather?
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:44 pm

chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:I know a few Eastern Europens who arrived in Peru recently and about 90% of them are really disappointed with what they've seen here so far.


Disappointed about what? Food, accomdation, things to visit or the weather?

The way of life in general. For many of them it's utterly incomprehensible.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby panman » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:55 pm

mammamia wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:I know a few Eastern Europens who arrived in Peru recently and about 90% of them are really disappointed with what they've seen here so far.


Disappointed about what? Food, accomdation, things to visit or the weather?

The way of life in general. For many of them it's utterly incomprehensible.

I visited Bucharest in Romania several years ago and the only thing that impressed me was some of the architecture.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:58 pm

panman wrote:
mammamia wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:I know a few Eastern Europens who arrived in Peru recently and about 90% of them are really disappointed with what they've seen here so far.


Disappointed about what? Food, accomdation, things to visit or the weather?

The way of life in general. For many of them it's utterly incomprehensible.

I visited Bucharest in Romania several years ago and the only thing that impressed me was some of the architecture.

So many men, so many minds.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:45 pm

mammamia wrote:
tupacperu wrote:
mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find another country to visit. There being so many other countries which don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 - $140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me. Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids, etc.) instead of Peru.


No longer will you be able to buy a ticket and board a plane. These types of visa probably will require a consular visit. Nearest Consul for me is Patterson, NJ and I live in the Northern suburbs of Philly (Practically a trip to NY).

Not many people are interested in Mexico. Tourism has practically fallen off the map becasue of crimes, drugs and decapitations. I have no desire to go to Mexico , I have gone many times over the years, but itis off my list.

Don't say that! "Not many people are interested in Mexico". When was the last time you travelled to Mexico? I'm not talking about Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez and other places in the northen states close to US border. Those are nasty and dangerous. But the Yucatan Peninsula, Cozumel, the western coast are loaded with US, Canadian and European tourists. I worked there from 2003 through 2011 and can give you the statistics if you want. Cozumel International Airport (a small airport in a small island) operates flights to 5 airports in the US and 3 airports in Canada! Can you say the same about Cuszo airport? I doubt that.


I am spanish fluent, my ex is from Guadalajara and I have extensive travel experience in Mexico (family there). 17 years of travel in Mexico, had planned to retire in Zihuatanejo. But after all the violence. I looked to South America.

You may want to google MEXICO MASS GRAVES, decapitations , assassination and the interior and resorts are included.
Cozumel:
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/02/07/c ... n-cozumel/




Cancun Drug Murders: 6 Strangled, 1 Decapitated In Mexico Resort Town

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3081836

2013 April

Google mexico mexican resort murders


10/2013:
10 people murdered in a resort town
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Article ... ryId=14091
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:11 pm

americorps wrote:yes, the statements that the visa fee has not effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.

and even anecdotally, I know many local expats that have not gone to brazil because of the hassle and cost of getting the visa.

To suggest that Peru would not see some drop in numbers, and that bolivia has not seen a drop due to reciprocity fees is simply not true.

Your Facts? URL? i google reciprocity fees and tourism, not one article on affecting Tourism.

Expats would have to pay for a legal residency. They would not apply for a visitors visa
Last edited by tupacperu on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:24 pm

tupacperu wrote:
mammamia wrote:
tupacperu wrote:
mammamia wrote:
argidd wrote:I
honestly didn't see any xenophobic ones, mainly people feeling that
Peruvians (or our national pride?) will be treated fairly if this
passes, since so many countries ask us for a visa.
Honestly I think it is useless, for 2 reasons:

1) We do not have consular presence but in main cities, so (most) people
who need to go all the way to their closest consular point. and don't
want to/can't afford it additionally to their trip, etc. will just find
another country to visit. There being so many other countries which
don't require visas, Peru is just as good as the next (or perhaps not
worth the hassle).
2) Our embassies/consular offices offer crap service, if people were to
apply for a visa, can they handle this additional flow of work?

I think we should implement what the Chileans have, they charge US
citizens, Aussies, and others (I guess who require visas) from $100 -
$140 as an "entrance fee", no hassle, just a line at the airport, easy
peasy.

If the bill passes I guess it'll be implemented the easiest way that is
visas will be issued on arrival. But $100 - $140 seems too much for me.
Just imagine the situation when an American or EU family of 4-5 are
planning on a trip to Latin America they will probably be looking at
Mexico (it's closer, safer, visa-free entry, Mayan ruins and pyramids,
etc.) instead of Peru.


No longer will you be able to buy a ticket and board a plane. These
types of visa probably will require a consular visit. Nearest Consul
for me is Patterson, NJ and I live in the Northern suburbs of Philly
(Practically a trip to NY).

Not many people are interested in Mexico. Tourism has practically fallen
off the map becasue of crimes, drugs and decapitations. I have no
desire to go to Mexico , I have gone many times over the years, but itis
off my list.

Don't say that! "Not many people are interested in Mexico". When was
the last time you travelled to Mexico? I'm not talking about Tijuana,
Ciudad Juarez and other places in the northen states close to US border.
Those are nasty and dangerous. But the Yucatan Peninsula, Cozumel, the
western coast are loaded with US, Canadian and European tourists. I
worked there from 2003 through 2011 and can give you the statistics if
you want. Cozumel International Airport (a small airport in a small
island) operates flights to 5 airports in the US and 3 airports in
Canada! Can you say the same about Cuszo airport? I doubt that.


I am spanish fluent, my ex is from Guadalajara and I have extensive
travel experience in Mexico (family there). 17 years of travel in
Mexico, had planned to retire in Zihuatanejo. But after all the
violence. I looked to South America.

You may want to google MEXICO MASS GRAVES, decapitations , assassination
and the interior and resorts are included.
Cozumel:
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/02/07/c ... n-cozumel/




Cancun
Drug Murders: 6 Strangled, 1 Decapitated In Mexico Resort Town

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3081836

2013 April

Google mexico mexican resort murders


10/2013:
10 people murdered in a resort town
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Article ... ryId=14091

You
are American, aren't you and still you sound surprised at mass murders.
I believe that they happen much more often in the States than in
Mexico. And notorious Mexican drug cartels don't have anything or, let's
say, much to do with them. Those are your fellow-countrymen and
countrywomenw who, for reasons known only to them, go on shooting sprees at
schools, malls and navy bases.
You might as well check this site out:

http://isitsafetotraveltomexico.com/tag/statistics/
Last edited by mammamia on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:26 pm

tupacperu wrote:
americorps wrote:yes, the statements that the visa fee has not effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.

and even anecdotally, I know many local expats that have not gone to brazil because of the hassle and cost of getting the visa.

To suggest that Peru would not see some drop in numbers, and that bolivia has not seen a drop due to reciprocity fees is simply not true.

Your Facts? URL?

Expats would have to pay for a legal residency. They would not apply for a visitors visa



As we say in Kansas, where I am from....bless your heart.

1. in your lust for links, you seem to have omitted any links from the UN or Unesco or the Mexican government about actual tourism stats for Mexico. They are rising steady.

2. I do not know if promperu published the study or not, it is probably in some government document somwhere but since my partner worked on it, I am using him as my source.


so please, next time you scream URL, make sure you are actually using the same standard you are demanding. Quoting crime stats about mexico in reference to a claim of lower tourism without actually quoting tourism stats does not bode well for your integrety of fact usage.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:02 pm

americorps wrote:
tupacperu wrote:
americorps wrote:yes, the statements that the visa fee has not effected tourism is not supportable by any facts. It depends on the location. There is, without any doubt, a much lower number of north americans visiting bolivia because of the fee. There was studies done by the ministry of tourism in Peru showing that giving the additional fee, some would pick other countries over peru. Enough that they suggested the government not adopt the reciprocity fee.

and even anecdotally, I know many local expats that have not gone to brazil because of the hassle and cost of getting the visa.

To suggest that Peru would not see some drop in numbers, and that bolivia has not seen a drop due to reciprocity fees is simply not true.

Your Facts? URL?

Expats would have to pay for a legal residency. They would not apply for a visitors visa



As we say in Kansas, where I am from....bless your heart.

1. in your lust for links, you seem to have omitted any links from the UN or Unesco or the Mexican government about actual tourism stats for Mexico. They are rising steady.

2. I do not know if promperu published the study or not, it is probably in some government document somwhere but since my partner worked on it, I am using him as my source.


so please, next time you scream URL, make sure you are actually using the same standard you are demanding. Quoting crime stats about mexico in reference to a claim of lower tourism without actually quoting tourism stats does not bode well for your integrety of fact usage.

Rising does not mean they are at previous levels. The URL I am requesting is on Bolivian tourism.
Rising means that something went down. As I mentioned , URL ON RECIPROCITY FEES affecting tourism. Studies are assumptions not facts. You are quoting sources, URL PLEASE? gov't agency etc......
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:16 pm

6 months ago: April 2013

According to the Los Angeles Times, Mexico expects the number of foreign visitors it hosted in 2012 to reach a record 24.7 million. But the U.N. World Tourism Organization (UNWTO) says Mexico may soon fall from its coveted position among the world's top 10 tourist destinations.

Mexican government data quoted by the Associated Press says the number of cruise ships visiting Mexico last year fell by 3%, compared to a year earlier -- and by more than 15% for the past two years. Tourism along the country's northern border region is also down significantly, off 5.3% in 2012.

Mexican tourism officials say they cannot verify the UNWTO figures, but some travel industry analysts believe tourists are being scared off by the seemingly constant reports of violence in the country.

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post ... 20a84e1818
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Mexico Tourism Q3 2013.

http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/me ... 282528.htm

Here are the stats....
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:36 pm

mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Expect long lines at check-in at Jorge Chavez soon.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby mammamia » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:48 pm

chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Expect long lines at check-in at Jorge Chavez soon.


Not until 2015 I guess.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:20 pm

mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Good times ahead for the travel agents. Especially, one way tickets will sell very well.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:52 pm

chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Good times ahead for the travel agents. Especially, one way tickets will sell very well.


Onward or return passage is still required. So your statement is not true.

and unlike Peru, it will be a hard ticket, not just a reservation.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:10 pm

americorps wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Good times ahead for the travel agents. Especially, one way tickets will sell very well.


Onward or return passage is still required. So your statement is not true.

and unlike Peru, it will be a hard ticket, not just a reservation.


How are they going to check that? I even flew to the US with a one way ticket and showed US immigration a confirmed reservation. Of course it wasn't valid because during the booking, I didn't go to the payment section on the website.

And still. If they thoroughly going to check if people really have a return ticket, then they buy a return ticket and ''forget'' to go back to Peru. That's how most illegal immigrants moved to the US as well. They arrived legally, liked the country that much and overstayed.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:20 pm

it is easy to verify onward passage, as someone who claims airline employee as one of your many many previous jobs I am shocked you do not know that.

And as far as your comments that people will go and not come back, you must be addressing something else, I was addressing your false comment that one way tickets will see a tremendous upsurge in sales.

You were wrong.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:47 pm

americorps wrote:it is easy to verify onward passage, as someone who claims airline employee as one of your many many previous jobs I am shocked you do not know that.


Sure, it possible to check that. But check-in staff don't have the time to check that out. And airlines don't share information about their PAX bookings. So, if someone has an onward ticket with another airlines then it's more complicated to check that out.

I had fake onwards booking when flying to the US. I assume that US immigration can easily check that out but they don't.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:04 pm

chi chi wrote:
americorps wrote:it is easy to verify onward passage, as someone who claims airline employee as one of your many many previous jobs I am shocked you do not know that.


Sure, it possible to check that. But check-in staff don't have the time to check that out. And airlines don't share information about their PAX bookings. So, if someone has an onward ticket with another airlines then it's more complicated to check that out.

I had fake onwards booking when flying to the US. I assume that US immigration can easily check that out but they don't.



So, you are suggesting to break international law?

Dumb advice.

Fact is every day people are caught being dishonest as you suggest and the penalties can be high.

I realise, according to your posts, you frequently break the law or skirt rules and, if you can be believed, almost never get caught. You are free to have whatever morals or values you desire as long as you are the one who pays the price when you get caught for your criminal or deceitful behaviour, but I think it displays a lack of integrety and poor morals when suggesting such things to the community at large.

I think that sort of advice really brings down the expatperu community. It is shameful.

Still, your statment about upward trend of one way ticket sales is wrong.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:14 pm

americorps wrote:So, you are suggesting to break international law?



I didn't break any rules. I made a booking and ''forgot'' to pay for the ticket. Is that illegal?
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby americorps » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:16 pm

chi chi wrote:
americorps wrote:So, you are suggesting to break international law?



I didn't break any rules. I made a booking and ''forgot'' to pay for the ticket. Is that illegal?


yes, you broke the law.

when you accept entrance to a country, you make a promise to that country to obide by the laws and rules.

Whether you failed becuase you are a fraud or becuase you can`t remember, you still frauded the country, lied when you said you folowed the rules.

Inability to keep track of what you do from one minute to the next does not make you illegal activities legal.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:37 pm

americorps wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:Peruvians will be able to travel visa-free to the EU states if the bill passes.

http://noticias.terra.com.pe/nacional/, ... aRCRD.html


Good times ahead for the travel agents. Especially, one way tickets will sell very well.


Onward or return passage is still required. So your statement is not true.

and unlike Peru, it will be a hard ticket, not just a reservation.


Once in the country you can get a refund on your return trip with a refundable ticket.
Done it a few times when traveling to Peru. No need for onward ticket.
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Re: proposes to require visas to countries requesting the same

Postby tupacperu » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:43 pm

americorps wrote:
chi chi wrote:
americorps wrote:So, you are suggesting to break international law?



I didn't break any rules. I made a booking and ''forgot'' to pay for the ticket. Is that illegal?


yes, you broke the law.

when you accept entrance to a country, you make a promise to that country to obide by the laws and rules.

Whether you failed becuase you are a fraud or becuase you can`t remember, you still frauded the country, lied when you said you folowed the rules.

Inability to keep track of what you do from one minute to the next does not make you illegal activities legal.

Come on Americorp, a few years back, you were telling people how to print and buy s bus ticket out of Peru.
This was a way of getting around a one way ticket. Cancel the ticket or do not board the bus. Lol...

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