Do you feel danger when in the public now?

[RICHARDandNORA]

I have not read much here about the rapid rise in robberies and violence. From decades of association with Peru, I used to tell people in the USA that people in Peru may steal (if they were hungry), but that they had no desire to physically harm you. Well, that seems to have changed. My wife was recently in a manicure shop having her nails done along with 3 other ladies when a guy entered and asked if the shop could work in his girl friend. He returned with his friend who stayed in the car while he re-entered the shop. He then placed the barrel of his gun against my wife's forehead and proceeded to rob her along with the 3 other individuals. He then placed all 4 clients in a closet while he "roughed" the manicurist for the business' money. Two months ago, my wife's 30 year old son was walking with his girl friend when 3 guys jumped and robbed him. He was apparently struck with brass knuckles which required stitches above his eye. My wife tells me that she is now becoming afraid to leave the house as she was while attending her university during the terrorist period. Are you folks somewhat afraid to be in the public now?

[KenBE]

Wow I am really sorry that happened to your wife... Yeah, it is true, crime is a huge problem in Peru. My Peruvian ex girlfriend was express-kidnapped in a taxi last year. It was pretty violent too. She has also been robbed at gunpoint several times. When I lived in Trujillo almost ALL the stores in my neighborhood got robbed by armed "choros" and several of my neighbors were robbed as well. In fact most Peruvians I know have been robbed/mugged at least once (most several times).

According to statistics Peru has the second highest street robbery rate in Latin America (after Ecuador).
http://peru21.pe/actualidad/peru-ocupa- ... ca-2172044

I love Peru and don't want to be negative, but yeah, crime is a big problem. It is sad really...

[cmcarriemarie]

My family was robbed in their car at gunpoint last year, in Jesus Maria. And then just last night returning from work, someone on my bus had her cell phone stolen, although the man didn't threaten her or act violently - he just snatched it as she was using it, and ran.

I think the biggest thing is taking precautions to keep ourselves safe. For myself, I carry a bag that goes across my body, therefore making it quite a lot harder to steal. I also don't carry anything with me that I'd be upset to lose if at all possible. This means leaving my passport at home, making sure that I don't carry around more money than I'll need for whatever I'm doing. I don't use my cell phone in public except to take a photo, and in those cases I check the area I'm in first and try to only take it out at a time that I'm not surrounded by people.

It isn't fun to feel like you always have to be on your guard, but I think there are a lot of ways to make yourself less of a target, that some people disregard.

[tupacperu]

The climate of crime has change along with the economy. More money in circulation more opportunity for crime.

From 2003-2010 we lived in Lima, most robberies were tourist getting roughed up.
Not many armed crimes as I observed. Lately lots of crimes involving guns. Shoot out with cop are happening more.

[teamoperu]

In answer, no I do not have fear for being a victim of an armed robbery here. Two discussions really: armed robbery vs robbery. For armed robbery, it happens, but I do not fear it will happen to me. It could, but the odds are low, more random, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It makes the news, but not many gringos in the news about this. I think I would have more fear if I was Peruvian. I can be more judicious about where I go and when. As you say, I take the precautions you mentioned so no fear if it happens, I'll just give my stuff to them and walk away safe. It is only stuff. At least in Peru we do not have, like in the United Sates, people shooting kids in schools, serial killers, 9/11 etc.

Home invasions, drug addicts stealing, armed bank robberies, armed convenience store robberies, acts of terrorism etc all happen in my home country. I do not live in fear when there either.

With unarmed robbery, statistically I have been robbed more in my “safer” home country than here. They broke into my car a few weeks ago. Happens. Again, if I were a poor Peruvinan living in a poor area, I would have way more awareness that it will happen to me.

Armed and non-armed robbery happens all over the world. Some places more, some places less. I can think of many worse places in the world than Peru.

[RICHARDandNORA]

We live between Charlotte and Lima and regarding the aforementioned horrendous attacks, statically speaking, they are not that common, at least to me and my peers. Although much worse now, growing up, we often would not even lock our doors. I personally cannot remember knowing of anyone that was attacked or experienced a major theft, although it does happen. Here, I know of it happening to many people even though they are very careful. I hope that the authorities can gain control of this problem, but that is probably wishful thinking.

[richiecry]

Richard....what district did the robbery in the manicure place take place?

[chi chi]

With the rising cost of living, things will only get worser.

The gap between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger.

The rich are getting bigger houses and fancier cars but the poor in the slums on the hills around Lima will struggle more to make ends meet.

[teamoperu]

With the rising cost of living, things will only get worser.

The gap between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger.

The rich are getting bigger houses and fancier cars but the poor in the slums on the hills around Lima will struggle more to make ends meet.

Simplistic nonsense.

[RICHARDandNORA]

The district where my wife's incident occurred was Los Olivos near the municipalidad building.

[19naia]

I never did have issues last year when there in trujillo area... Im Over 6ft tall, walk fast even on a casual stroll and have some build and maneuver to my body and movements... The Bandidos are all cowards and pick on who they think will not leave them at risk as well... Never doubt that robbers fear getting taken down when doing their do...
They are cowards and try to pick on people that look less able to defend themselves or hurt them in a struggle, or flee with a good advantage in any chase..
I have had the same "no molesta" fortune through philippines,thailand, honduras, nicaragua, panama, peru and ecuador... Only problem i ever had was on a daily basis, in all those places, little short locals (regular grandmas, kids,men, women) walking the side walk taking up the whole path unnecessarily and not giving an inch to make room to share.. So i use my speed and strength and maneuverability, to hop aside even into the road when needed, well ahead of any confrontation.. Head on my way quick and easy without any hassle from others looking for a reason to be upset.. Good exercise for me and I would hate to see their lazy bums scared by a big guy like me trying to plow through them... Good exercise hopping left & right all day every day.. I keep in shape and limber while they just waddle along the supposed easy path that isn't always good for the health and spirits..

[tupacperu]

I never did have issues last year when there in trujillo area... Im Over 6ft tall, walk fast even on a casual stroll and have some build and maneuver to my body and movements... The Bandidos are all cowards and pick on who they think will not leave them at risk as well... Never doubt that robbers fear getting taken down when doing their do...
They are cowards and try to pick on people that look less able to defend themselves or hurt them in a struggle, or flee with a good advantage in any chase..
I have had the same "no molesta" fortune through philippines,thailand, honduras, nicaragua, panama, peru and ecuador... Only problem i ever had was on a daily basis, in all those places, little short locals (regular grandmas, kids,men, women) walking the side walk taking up the whole path unnecessarily and not giving an inch to make room to share.. So i use my speed and strength and maneuverability, to hop aside even into the road when needed, well ahead of any confrontation.. Head on my way quick and easy without any hassle from others looking for a reason to be upset.. Good exercise for me and I would hate to see their lazy bums scared by a big guy like me trying to plow through them... Good exercise hopping left & right all day every day.. I keep in shape and limber while they just waddle along the supposed easy path that isn't always good for the health and spirits..

My case also 6'3 240lbs (Negrito, as my wife calls me). lived 7 years in Peru and no problems. I did get stared down at Gammara one time by a small group of guys. Gave them a nasty look back... nothing came of it. Went about my business.

[mnidperu]

well if im able to stay....i may plan to open a personal bodygaurd and self defensive class for tourist

[leosmutter]

I never felt any danger over here in public. Walking around in not really fancy cloth and only taking things with me a don't really care to lose. What i really don't like are things like for example when somebody snatched a bracelet on a party where only family members and friends were invited. Or on the same occasion some peruvian kids just entered the party and snatched things from the table without asking. Maybe it's different thinking over here but i will never get used to it. It's just a thing of education of kids and they are raised like kings over here with no limits at all. Maybe this left the topic a little bit, sorry for that.

[gringito]

(Yes, I feel it)

If you feel the danger (and you should feel it, since Lima is a dangerous place) it is better for your safety.
However, you should not become paranoid.
Be vigilant, be nice but assertive, have a plan.

I would be quite naive to assume that because you live in a wealthy neighborhood there is no danger/risk.
People get assaulted in EVERY (!) barrio in Lima.
Friends of mine were assaulted in La Molina, in Mancora, in Trujillo, etc. etc.
A brother of these friends was intercepted in La Molina by another vehicle while driving and robbed at gunpoint. They stole his BMW.
Other friends suffered from burglary in Miraflores, Surco, etc.

During the last 5 years I was assaulted 3 times. The first time near my house, in a fenced in urbanizacion with security guards. The second time at night in Miraflores. Every time there were 3 or more thugs. In every incident I had to use force to get out of the situation in one single piece. The first time I was scared to death. It took me quite a while to get over it.
The second time I was better prepared.
I do not like to end up in such an incident another time but I am convinced that in Lima (or when travelling in Peru) you better take into consideration such possibility.

Don´t fall into the “it never happens to me/it never happens here syndrome”.

[ironchefchris]

Be vigilant, be nice but assertive, have a plan....
The second time I was better prepared.

Not looking to get into a debate or complex discussion, if only because I feel that it's already been done. I find I tend to agree with you 100% on some things, 0% on others, and usually somewhere in between on the majority, but even when I don't agree with you I respect your opinion since you feel strongly about these issues and take the time to present a well thought out position. That said, I'm curious as to the specifics of your plan beyond being vigilant and nice but assertive. Weapons, training, attitude, etc.? Again, I'm not looking to be judgmental or get into a back and forth. Since we're all adults we can choose to deal with issues of safety how we see fit, but I am curious as to what it is you've done to prepare for potential situations you may find yourself facing. Safety and crime is an issue that affects all who live in Peru, perhaps especially in Lima, so I think other expats would be interested and might benefit from details you could give. Thanks for elaborating.

[KenBE]

Just came across this article:

Peru has the highest crime rate in Latin America according to the "Barómetro de las Américas 2014":

No era una percepción producto de la histeria. El Perú es el país de América Latina con la mayor tasa de víctimas de la delincuencia. Así lo revela el Barómetro de las Américas 2014, presentado ayer en la sede del Instituto de Estudios Peruanos (IEP).

De acuerdo a este trabajo del Proyecto de Opinión Pública de América Latina (LAPOP), el 30,6% de los ciudadanos peruanos ha sido víctima de al menos un acto delincuencial durante el año pasado: El promedio para la región es de 17,3%.

http://elcomercio.pe/politica/actualida ... rtada_home

[leosmutter]

Do you feel danger? No, i don't feel danger, but i know i am NOT in a safe place. And this is what you should always remember when you go out. And jesus, i am glad to be back to europe after a 3 month visit in peru. No more worries about going to the bank and get some or loads of money, no worries wearing a nice watch, no worries using a nice phone in public... Peru has got its beautiful things, sure, but Mr. Humala should really take care of the criminal rate over there. I personally think there will only be a change if his wife gets robbed some day. Why not adapt a three strikes law? I remember some weeks ago i was on one of those "combis" and a "chorro" tried to snatch a phone from outside the bus through the window. He didn't get it as the victim was not that easy and then walked away like nothing. This "chorro" knew pretty well that even if cought by police they let him walk away because he just committed a "minor crime". This sucks.

[gringito]

Yeah...it never happens in my good barrio?

This morning in Barranco and San Isidro:

http://www.atv.pe/actualidad/san-isidro ... era-271256

That said, I'm curious as to the specifics of your plan beyond being vigilant and nice but assertive. Weapons, training, attitude, etc.?

Yes, preferably ALL of it depending on where I go!
According to my opinion a plan should include your clear idea or trained pattern of how you should/could react in case XZY happens and you are unarmed/armed/sole/together with your family/at home/on the street/in a vehicle/in a restaurant/injured/ etc.

PS:
I should add:
If you get assaulted for the first time in your life it is something so unbelievable (!) and such an invasion (!) of your privacy that (usually) your world view brakes into little pieces.
Coming from a non-violent society you usually have never been personally confronted with violence. You simply cannot believe that somebody does not respect you and your physical integrity, ignores you and your values and employs brute force/violence in order to get what he wants. What you have seen in the TV appears abstract and unreal…until the moment when YOU become a victim.

When I said the second time I was better prepared it was because I already had been assaulted before, i.e. now I knew how it felt (and hurt...) and therefore I mentally and physically prepared and trained (in particular self-defense; though I trained before but reality is something quite different…) a lot and with much more dedication for the next assault since I got the strong feeling it might happen again here in Lima.

[KenBE]

Yeah...it never happens in my good barrio?

This morning in Barranco and San Isidro:

http://www.atv.pe/actualidad/san-isidro ... era-271256

Colombians again... I wonder why they keep coming to Peru to rob people.

http://elcomercio.pe/lima/sucesos/polic ... ia-1579969

[gringito]

This morning (Saturday, April 25, 2015):
Passenger shot in taxi in San Isidro:
http://peru21.pe/actualidad/san-isidro- ... xi-2217463

Peru is No. 1 in crime rate:
http://elcomercio.pe/politica/actualida ... rtada_home

[teamoperu]

Today

http://www.inforum.com/news/crime/37170 ... phys-fargo

http://miami.cbslocal.com/tag/robbery/

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/tag/armed-robbery/

etc

[FHCZ]

This morning (Saturday, April 25, 2015):
Passenger shot in taxi in San Isidro:
http://peru21.pe/actualidad/san-isidro- ... xi-2217463

]

Many of these shootings are due to the drug war going on between criminal bands. After all, Perú is a leading cocaine producing country.That passenger shot dead was a criminal band member, according to the news. The danger is if your cought in the crossfire.

[ironchefchris]

That passenger shot dead was a criminal band member, according to the news. The danger is if your cought in the crossfire.

Crossfire. When I lived in Venice Beach I'd visit friends who lived deep in the hood. One guy's house was on the border of two warring gangs; the Venice Shore Line Crips and V13. Gunfire was common and we'd often get off the couch and move conversation down to floor level because randoms in the wrong place at the wrong time did occasionally get hit in the crossfire.

When out on the street, walking to and from this part of Venice, nobody ever once bothered me accept to try to sell the out-of-place white boy some crack. I wonder if there is a stat that shows just how much of this violence is gang on gang, cartel vs. cartel, etc., and how much is crime against ordinary, law abiding citizens.

[gringito]

The danger is if your cought in the crossfire.

Which is an imminent danger. May I remember that all of the last 5 heavy shootings here in Lima were in plain commercial areas and crowed streets (Miraflores, San Isidro, Los Olivos, Jesus Maria, etc. etc.)?

... and how much is crime against ordinary, law abiding citizens.

In the article I mentioned above about Peru being "No. 1" it is stated that the study was based on what the citizens have experienced, not what happened to narcos or criminals.

@Teamoperu:
We are still talking about Peru.

[teamoperu]

@Teamoperu:
We are still talking about Peru.[/quote]

Some of us have a more global perspective.

[gringito]

Some of us have a more global perspective.

Even some of the people living in Peru and being affected by crime in Peru have (more) global perspectives - while some of those that have a (more) global perspective neither necessarily live in Peru nor are necesarily affected by crime in Peru nor are immune against crime.

Moreover, some of us are simply aware of the fact that we are writing in an expat forum about Peru about the question initially raised and that some always need to split hairs.

Does this make someone feel danger when in the public now?

[teamoperu]

Some of us have a more global perspective.

Even some of the people living in Peru and being affected by crime in Peru have (more) global perspectives - while some of those that have a (more) global perspective neither necessarily live in Peru nor are necesarily affected by crime in Peru nor are immune against crime.

Moreover, some of us are simply aware of the fact that we are writing in an expat forum about Peru about the question initially raised and that some always need to split hairs.

Does this make someone feel danger when in the public now?

Don't worry, be happy.

I am not quaking in my shoes that someone will steal my cell phone. My cell phone may be vibrating in fear, but not me, I have it insured.

My odds of dying from cancer are greater than me dying from being assaulted in Piura.

[gringito]

Vigorous shooting and panic in Surquillo

May 01., 2015

http://trome.pe/actualidad/surquillo-as ... ia-2047420

[teamoperu]

Baltimore riots, police rioters clash, 15 police hurt, fire and arson, military called in

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /26454875/

[teamoperu]

Two shot dead after they open fire at Mohammed cartoon event in Texas

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/03/us/mohamm ... -shooting/

[teamoperu]

Toronto man fatally shot during robbery after Kentucky Derby

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-ma ... -1.2357934

[gringito]

expatPERU.com

Jesus...teamoperu...Baltimore, Texas and Toronto.
Your geography teacher should have a serious word with you.

[fanning]

expatPERU.com

Jesus...teamoperu...Baltimore, Texas and Toronto.
Your geography teacher should have a serious word with you.

Don't you get his point ?
Surely he tries to say that not only in Peru bad things happen. And in the places he mentions even you would probably feel safe in public. So if you feel safe in those places, why not feel safe in Peru also. I do anyway.. Offcourse not some neighborhoods that I wouldn't visit anyways.

[Sergio Bernales]

To be honest, I feel the types of crime between, say, the UK and Peru, are quite different. Aggressive drunks on Friday and Saturday nights, deserted train stations at night with weirdos loitering around and gangs of bored youths on housing estates are the things that bother most people across the pond. Not that other more serious crimes exist, but they are much less common than they are in Peru.

Apart from the odd but rare group of drunken gringos wandering round Parque Kennedy and Pizza Street, I rarely see these types of crimes in Lima, or at least its nicer parts - although I know gangs are a problem in the barrios jovenes - but here I find myself looking out for a different type of criminal, the rogue taxi drivers, the grab and run muggers and yes the armed mugger, although with guardias and Serenazgo on almost every corner where I live, I do find myself feeling relatively safe, but yes, I shouldn't be complacent. What the hell is an 60-year-old guardia or an unarmed Serenazgo officer going to do if someone comes at me with a gun.

[ironchefchris]

expatPERU.com

Jesus...teamoperu...Baltimore, Texas and Toronto.
Your geography teacher should have a serious word with you.

Don't you get his point ?
Surely he tries to say that not only in Peru bad things happen. And in the places he mentions even you would probably feel safe in public. So if you feel safe in those places, why not feel safe in Peru also. I do anyway.. Offcourse not some neighborhoods that I wouldn't visit anyways.

I agree with the suggestion of what the point was. If one sees danger lurking behind every corner then it’s fair to say it’s a dangerous world no matter where the corner is because these types of events happen just about everywhere - even in places the average person would feel safe. I’m not surprised to see that San Isidro can also be a locale for danger, but pointing out an event that happened on May Day, a day known for protest and riots, seems to be a bit of a stretch to make San Isidro out to be a dangerous place. These things happen after major sporting events as well, but I wouldn’t judge an area based on football hooligans doing their thing or because a bunch of people take to the streets, flip over cars, and generally get rambunctious after their team wins the Stanley Cup/World Series/etc.. I once lived in a college town with a successful (American) football team and when they won, drunken fratboys would drag their furniture into the streets and set it on fire. Didn’t make sense to me, but never left me with the impression that it was a dangerous place because some weekends during the season there’d be flaming sofas in the streets.

In another thread an article was quoted as saying “being statistically safe is not the same as feeling safe,” which suggests that danger/safety has as much, if not more, to do with personal subjective feelings as it does to more objective, impersonal crime statistics. If this is so, the person who feels danger is lurking more often than not, or more than the average person does, is likely to feel that way whether in Peru, or a lilly white suburb constantly surrounded by personal bodyguards. Others tend to recognize the world is not Utopian, but tend not to focus so much on the dangers of living as to just go about living life without fear. Caution and common sense, yes, fear, no. One might never leave the house if they were afraid of the very real possibility of being involved in a car accident or being hit by a bus because these things do happen. They also could be the victim of a household accident (statistically more likely, no more how safe they feel in their home) and decide to never shower for fear of slipping and cracking their head open.

Danger can be self defined. Someone who tends to feel danger more often than not is not going to be assuaged by someone telling them not to worry because of statistics or because it’s pointed out that these types of events are common all over the world, even in places that are generally considered to be safe. Someone who tends to go about their life, aware of dangers, but not letting it rule how they live their lives, are not going to be convinced to drastically change their behavior or opinion to reflect that bad things happen and are just a part of the world and being alive. If feeling safe is more based on emotion than statistics telling someone who feels unsafe not to worry means as much as a small child being told not be afraid of monsters under the bed. Makes sense to the parent, but the child may still feel a very real sense of danger and logic very rarely trumps emotion.

[KenBE]

Another article: A guy was shot for defending his girlfriend from choros who tried to rob her cell phone:

http://elcomercio.pe/lima/ciudad/balean ... 067?flsm=1

Un joven identificado como Wilder Alexander Hugo Obregón, de 28 años, fue asesinado por querer evitar el robo de un celular en San Martín de Porres.

Apparently it is the second time in one month this has happened in the same area:

http://elcomercio.pe/lima/policiales/sm ... =contenido

Un joven universitario de 19 años murió baleado por delincuentes en el cruce del jirón Lima con Áncash en San Martín de Porres, a una cuadra de su casa.

[teamoperu]

Sure sounds pretty stupid to get shot over a cell phone.

BTW, 113 cell phones are lost or stolen every minute in the U.S.
(http://www.plateautel.com/wireless_stolen_phones.asp)

So if someone was shot defending their cell phone from theft in the USA it means there would be (525949 * 113 = 59 432 237) almost 60 000 000 dead people in the USA trying to defend their cell phone's honor. That is unless someone got robbed twice so was shot dead twice to save the cost of insurance that would provide a better replacement phone at nominal cost.

Murdered for her iPhone

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... phone.html

[Alpineprince]

I have always felt safe (reason we live in Miraflores) here, Cannot say the same when I lived or visited Callao. I even had to duck for cover a few years back, when bullets were flying after Donatello's got robbed, but still feel safe,except for crossing the street.

[SilverbackPeru]

Graph for murder rates around the world. Makes interesting reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... world.html

[SilverbackPeru]

It's interesting that altho the United States is classed as pretty safe it does have some hotspot cities marked on the map. Peru is marked down as pretty dangerous but yet Lima seems to be off the dangerous city listings.

[ironchefchris]

Whatever you think or however you feel about Peru/US/wherever, at least it's not as bad as our neighbors in Venezuela.

http://www.npr.org/2015/05/12/406105639 ... e-epidemic

[gringito]

Whatever you think or however you feel about Peru/US/wherever, at least it's not as bad as our neighbors in Venezuela.

http://www.npr.org/2015/05/12/406105639 ... e-epidemic

Damn true!

[windsportinperu]

Guy "A" feels safe in Peru
Guy "B" feels unsafe in Peru

It is pointless and fruitless these two situations:

"A" try to argue to "B" that Peru is safe, even though "B" feel unsafe here
"B" try to argue to "A" that Peru is unsafe, even though "A" feel safe here

[Alan]

Guy "A" feels safe in Peru
Guy "B" feels unsafe in Peru

It is pointless and fruitless these two situations:

"A" try to argue to "B" that Peru is safe, even though "B" feel unsafe here
"B" try to argue to "A" that Peru is unsafe, even though "A" feel safe here

Hmmm.... I "C"

(entry: worst pun of the year award)

[KenBE]

Guy "A" feels safe in Peru
Guy "B" feels unsafe in Peru

It is pointless and fruitless these two situations:

"A" try to argue to "B" that Peru is safe, even though "B" feel unsafe here
"B" try to argue to "A" that Peru is unsafe, even though "A" feel safe here

I agree, which is why I don't really like to participate in these types of discussions anymore (I did in the past). It is all pretty pointless because no one can really prove anything.

[KenBE]

Police rob polleria in Trujillo:

http://www.latina.pe/90/capturan-a-poli ... llo_101346

[teamoperu]

It is much worse elsewhere:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/police-corruption/

[KenBE]

It is much worse elsewhere:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/police-corruption/

That may or may not be true. The point is that a bunch of police robbing a restaurant is pretty bad and shocking.

[teamoperu]

It is much worse elsewhere:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/police-corruption/

That may or may not be true. The point is that a bunch of police robbing a restaurant is pretty bad and shocking.

Not shocking at all when you consider in the USA white policeman have shooting to murder unarmed black children for years and getting away with it. Now the cell cameras proves it.