Why are white people expats and the rest are immigrants

[fanning]

Just read an interesting article on The Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration?CMP=share_btn_fb

[ironchefchris]

Interesting article. Language as Orwellian 'Reality control.'

[tomsax]

So true.

I've also noticed that immigrant is not a term that often is used for French, German or American people living in the UK. It doesn't matter how longer they have been here. They are just referred to as people who live here. The term immigrant is used for other people without actually saying why.

We have the UK Independence Party here who constantly talking about the problem of immigration while also claiming that they are colour blind. They aren't.

[panman]

I think as usual someone's trying to create a race issue, look where the article origionated.
Generally, as far as I am concerned, an expat is a person who is living, usually to due work circumstances, outside their native country whereas an immigrant is a person who's made a permanent move to a foreign country. It just so happens that an awful lot of those who've made such a move to the UK are somewhat darker skinned than the natives.
This has nothing to do with back or white, unless of course you want to stir the pot and then, if you do so, the kettle will probably turn round and call you Black.

[tomsax]

Focussing on Peru I cant remember foreigners ever being referred to by Peruvians or referred to by themselves as "imigrantes" or immigrants. Then again I cant remember the term expat used much. I think this is because Peruvians are generally more welcoming of foreigners. Peruvians are more concerned about internal "migrants" coming from the poorer areas of Peru, so use the term then.

I can imagine if this site was called "ImmigrantPeru" it would be a lot less successfull. As the article suggest this is because of the status connotations of the term.

[chi chi]

We have the UK Independence Party here who constantly talking about the problem of immigration while also claiming that they are colour blind. They aren't.

And Nigel Farage his wife is...foreign.

[tupacperu]

I think as usual someone's trying to create a race issue, look where the article origionated.
Generally, as far as I am concerned, an expat is a person who is living, usually to due work circumstances, outside their native country whereas an immigrant is a person who's made a permanent move to a foreign country. It just so happens that an awful lot of those who've made such a move to the UK are somewhat darker skinned than the natives.
This has nothing to do with back or white, unless of course you want to stir the pot and then, if you do so, the kettle will probably turn round and call you Black.

Unfortunately race is a global issue... less of an issue for me in Peru (why I am choosing to return and retire)

[tupacperu]

lol... only white People travel to Peru.. this was the criticism of this video en PromPeru.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=84 ... nref=story

[panman]

I think as usual someone's trying to create a race issue, look where the article origionated.
Generally, as far as I am concerned, an expat is a person who is living, usually to due work circumstances, outside their native country whereas an immigrant is a person who's made a permanent move to a foreign country. It just so happens that an awful lot of those who've made such a move to the UK are somewhat darker skinned than the natives.
This has nothing to do with back or white, unless of course you want to stir the pot and then, if you do so, the kettle will probably turn round and call you Black.

Unfortunately race is a global issue... less of an issue for me in Peru (why I am choosing to return and retire)

So, according to what I believe is the correct defiition, you'll be coming as an immigrant.

[tomsax]

So panman, the 1/4 million or so British retirees in Spain: You agree they are immigrants and not expats?

[tupacperu]

I think as usual someone's trying to create a race issue, look where the article origionated.
Generally, as far as I am concerned, an expat is a person who is living, usually to due work circumstances, outside their native country whereas an immigrant is a person who's made a permanent move to a foreign country. It just so happens that an awful lot of those who've made such a move to the UK are somewhat darker skinned than the natives.
This has nothing to do with back or white, unless of course you want to stir the pot and then, if you do so, the kettle will probably turn round and call you Black.

Unfortunately race is a global issue... less of an issue for me in Peru (why I am choosing to return and retire)

So, according to what I believe is the correct defiition, you'll be coming as an immigrant.

For 2 years an immigrant, then a citizen

[panman]

So panman, the 1/4 million or so British retirees in Spain: You agree they are immigrants and not expats?

Read the dictionary.

[tomsax]

So panman, the 1/4 million or so British retirees in Spain: You agree they are immigrants and not expats?

Read the dictionary.

The whole point of the guardian piece was the by the definition in the dictionary all people referred to as immigrants are actually expats and also vice-versa but that people choose which word according to other criteria It was you who tried to argue that on the contrary there is a distintion by writing in your answer "Generally, as far as I am concerned, an expat is a person who is living, usually to due work circumstances, outside their native country whereas an immigrant is a person who's made a permanent move to a foreign country."

So by your own definition, all retirees living in Spain are immigrants. This was clarified when you argued that tupacperu is an immigrant because he is retiring to Peru.

But now you want to go back to the dictionary!

The point is the article is that people like to change their own definition according to who they are talking about. So which is it? Immigrant or expat for retirees living in Spain?

[Dave]

It's a fascinating question. I suspect it has to do with the fact that it was originally coined as a word to describe mostly American artists/writers living in other countries, and that connotation just kind of stuck.

It's important to remember that there are many white people in the world and English is just one of many languages used by white people. I'd be very interested to know if the languages in non-English speaking, predominently white, nations have equivalent words for "expat" and "immigrant", and if so if the same type of distinction exists as it does in English.

Also, I have met African Americans living in Peru who describe themselves as 'expats' without a second thought, which leads me again to my theory of its historical context as an American word, and seems to weaken the argument that it's all about race.

[19naia]

I never knew this was an issue, but its not surprising.. Thats because many white people in USA who encounter the word "ethnic" tend to think of it as referring only to people of darker skin or from distinctly different cultural background.. As if it was invented for European spawned people only to refer to all others. A blonde haired blue eyed girl tried to convince me of that once in a college classroom.. She was not doing well in the class, and i made it out with an A grade..
You can see the term "ethnic food" in some US grocery stores like i saw in south florida area...
I was taught in Anthropology/sociology courses, the term " ethnocentric" , and it referred to people of all races or culture who see the world only in terms of their own cultural makeup.. So yes europeans would also actually fall under ethnicity per unique cultural parties... I recall the term "ethnic cleansing" used to describe events in Serbia/Yugoslavia as it was called back then, as it was referring to one group of slavic people trying to kill off the other despite all being white and from that region of Europe... I think the real issue was one group adopted Islam and wanted to rule the entire region by it... All groups were native white people, the religion and its ideology was foreign or should i say an expatriated religion or immigrant religion ...
I think the issue behind this thread, is ethnocentricity.. People who see the world in terms of their own ethnicity while all else falls on the outside and different labels are used to propagate the sense of separateness..

[gringolandia]

This is thought provoking. I like it.

Personally I basically agree with panman. If your intent is to become a citizen then you are an immigrant. Otherwise you're an expat.

I may live here for a relatively long time (perhaps the next ten years or so) but I have zero intent of becoming a citizen. And my income is 100% tied to the US as well. To label me an immigrant would seem to have highly inaccurate connotations, and perhaps even be offensive to Peruvian citizens who tsake their civic rights and duties seriously.

I suppose one could also argue that this is a false linguistic dichotomy, since one could potentially be both an expat and an immigrant at the same time..? Still, it is fun and enlightening to discuss.

[Sergio Bernales]

This is thought provoking. I like it.

Personally I basically agree with panman. If your intent is to become a citizen then you are an immigrant. Otherwise you're an expat.

I may live here for a relatively long time (perhaps the next ten years or so) but I have zero intent of becoming a citizen. And my income is 100% tied to the US as well. To label me an immigrant would seem to have highly inaccurate connotations, and perhaps even be offensive to Peruvian citizens who tsake their civic rights and duties seriously.

I suppose one could also argue that this is a false linguistic dichotomy, since one could potentially be both an expat and an immigrant at the same time..? Still, it is fun and enlightening to discuss.

Yes, interesting perspective. Perhaps this depends on whether Panman considers himself an expat or an immigrant. He's married to a Peruvian, he's British, but I have no idea what his long-term plans are. Returning to blighty with the missus? Or staying in Peru until the grim reaper comes. So, Panman, which are you, expat or immigrant?

[panman]

So, Panman, which are you, expat or immigrant?

Naturalised immigrant.