Islam

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windsportinperu
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:09 pm

I understand your point.. here you have a shorter video.. and is easy to understand..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmeAPpEoGAI
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Re: Islam

Postby cross eyed mary » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:26 am

What you didn't know about Bill Warner...

https://mohsenaelguindy.wordpress.com/2 ... out-islam/
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Re: Islam

Postby adrian Thorne » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:05 am

cross eyed mary wrote:What you didn't know about Bill Warner...

https://mohsenaelguindy.wordpress.com/2 ... out-islam/



Bill Warner is a person relaying his opinion of a particular subject and we have a choice whether to listen, read or whatever, but I will say anybody or anything that threatens my family or / and my country is my enemy.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:57 am

Religion that is imposed by force and by the sword is not a religion of love… and not a religion of peace ..

For all the women at this forum, here you have an small approach of what islam really is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-bJR9cDb6k
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Re: Islam

Postby Polaron » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:41 pm

Wouldn't we all just be way better off without any kind of regimented religion? I mean people have the right to believe whatever they want; why not keep those beliefs to ourselves?
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Re: Islam

Postby jamison4 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:55 pm

Polaron wrote:Wouldn't we all just be way better off without any kind of regimented religion? I mean people have the right to believe whatever they want; why not keep those beliefs to ourselves?


Here Here total agreement. Like why can't we keep our sexual orientation to ourselves, why force it on others.
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:21 pm

I can't imagine all those teenagers I see making out on public park benches keeping their sexual orientation to themselves. I'd hate to have to live in a world where I couldn't walk down the street holding my wife's hand for fear of offending someone who believes I'd be forcing my sexual orientation on others. Makes me happy to see people show expressions of love and caring.
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Re: Islam

Postby jamison4 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:37 pm

ironchefchris wrote:I can't imagine all those teenagers I see making out on public park benches keeping their sexual orientation to themselves. I'd hate to have to live in a world where I couldn't walk down the street holding my wife's hand for fear of offending someone who believes I'd be forcing my sexual orientation on others. Makes me happy to see people show expressions of love and caring.


What??? Who said anything about not holding hands, my point was, Do what you want but don't shove it down our throats and politicize it.
A couple s kissing on a bench is not forcing them on us like tributes, memorials national monument, laws and parades do.
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:46 pm

Ah, I misinterpreted what is was you meant by "keeping their sexual orientation to themselves." Poe's law.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:46 pm

Evidence why some europeans prefer to commit suicide against its own society. It is destroying their own culture, race and so on.... Islam is taking advantage of this way of thiking..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK-U6Eaiz3g
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Re: Islam

Postby cross eyed mary » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:47 pm

I'm Muslim, love my religion and find this thread ludicrous.
Why do you have to hate what you don't understand?
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:19 pm

The politican and religious classification of the World, according to islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9yW-cyO4Js
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Re: Islam

Postby Polaron » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:32 pm

The concept of justice is sometimes represented as a scale in balance. It's symbolic for fairness and equality. And the funny thing about Justice is that those who used it unjustly in the past to crush those who could not take care of themselves are in danger of being themselves crushed similarly.

One can't stand in the way of Justice forever, and one can't get away with unfairness and bigotry forever. Sooner or later the full weight of Justice comes crashing down on someone who tries to do so. The inane comment about not forcing sexual orientation down people's throats is a lame attempt to justify Prejudice and bigotry in what the opinion holder hopes is a semi socially acceptable position. A majority of people nowadays is simply too worldly and too well educated to fall for such nonsense.
Last edited by Polaron on Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:55 pm

“”ultimately I want to see all the women in this country covered from head to toe”” ….. “I want to see sharia law in Europe” …

U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-L-E ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra45nX9JmW4
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Re: Islam

Postby Polaron » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:25 pm

cross eyed mary wrote:I'm Muslim, love my religion and find this thread ludicrous.
Why do you have to hate what you don't understand?


Well said, no Islam needs a Reformation much like Christianity had centuries ago. The problem is not Islam so much as some of its followers. Sadly the very same holds true for certain people that call themselves Christians.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:35 am

Some kind of naïve liberalism is floating in the air.. Some questions ... just into the same air..

Do you remember how Hitler could transformed a well-educated society as Germany into a barbarian one, just touching the right sensibility of nationalism ?

There is only one thing that is stronger than nationalism that is capable to form a nation of fanatics … Do you know what I am referring to ?

Could you help me to remember what is one of the most fervent religion, nowadays ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksNvokBcKGw
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Re: Islam

Postby Polaron » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:51 am

"Where knowledge ends, religion begins."

-- 19th century British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli.
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:03 am

To many who aren't members of any the three Abrahamic religions (or perhaps are more moderate members?) it looks like this:

Image

Image

Religion can be a beautiful and beneficial thing for many people, but imo it's the fundamentalists who give religion a bad name. Defining an entire religion and it's adherents based on the small minority of it's most fundamental while ignoring the majority who are more moderate and mainstream seems to me a mistake. Judging a Sufi based on the beliefs/actions of a fundamentalist Muslim makes as much sense as judging a member of the Church of Philadelphia based on the beliefs/actions of a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Any time you have a person or group believing they are the chosen/favored ones and that those who don't believe are doomed/infidels, there're going to be problems.

As far as Muslims, of the few I've known over the course of my life, not a one has ever tried to convert me or threatened me in any way for being an "infidel," whether friend or stranger. Many Christians have tried to convert me, and though none threatened me with violence in the present, many suggested that if I didn't convert that I would spend eternity in a violence filled Hell. To be fair, I've encountered far more Christians of various degrees of fundamentalism in my life than Muslims. I don't judge either religion based on any one adherent I've encountered personally or through the media.

The point about what happened in Germany re: nationalism says to me that this can happen in a Christian nation, a Muslim nation, or a secular nation. Human nature is human nature.

I think much of the current problems have more to do with global economics and geo-politics/militarism than religion, but religion is used as a sort of rallying cry to action because it's easier to create divisions and point out the otherness than it is to take an honest look at why there's so much unrest in the world. Just my subjective opinion. YMMV.
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:05 am

Wish this forum had a like button so I could thumbs up Polaron's comments.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:47 am

and after religion , spirituality comes..

Minority vs Mayority ... if the minority is in the power, then the mayority obey, even worst if the religion is the link between these 2 gropus..

Intermission...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO1xEDriHRo
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:56 am

If I were ever to invent or discover something of such a scale that it benefitted society in general I would hope that people would credit me and my thought process as opposed to crediting it as a great invention/discovery of whatever religion I may happen to practice.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:30 pm

ironchefchris wrote:If I were ever to invent or discover something of such a scale that it benefitted society in general I would hope that people would credit me and my thought process as opposed to crediting it as a great invention/discovery of whatever religion I may happen to practice.


According to what I have read before from you... and If you let me tell you something.. You seen to be the inventor of your own way of thinking, what is a very hard thing to do, nowadays..
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:34 am

This is the kind of muslims I like a lot..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ololvsiOG2M
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:33 am

A small child learns how to cut heads... quite shocking..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNFsyzbkn-A
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:31 pm

Australian woman jailed in Dubai, a sad example of what SHARIA LAW really is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwMSm8EfS8
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:01 pm

Italy , second part of the video is even worst..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLX4ibXyfUI
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:22 pm

It is not Yemen or Afganistan. It is a prestigious islamic school in UK ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95GxhqjHZ3E
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:55 am

Concept of radical and moderate muslim, explained by an islamic priest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8FqzfMhNlc
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:13 pm

Extremely fast transformation of a country..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HhNPcWSk_E
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:55 pm

So much wisdom at her short age. Focus your eyes into her eyes. She is trying to be strong but her sadness and desperation is evident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4gNBf2n3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqa9tt2eS5M
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Re: Islam

Postby tomsax » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:42 am

I work with lots of Muslims here in the UK and have many Muslim friends from when I was at school and university. The ones I know are open minded, generous, professional and I am glad to have them as colleagues and friends. None of them have complained or are complaining about Christianity, atheism (my belief) or any other religion. I don't know where this thread comes from but it obviously isn't from someone who knows many Muslims.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:48 pm

Tom,

I am very glad to receive your response about this thread. You are right when you say that my experience with muslims is quite limited. After reading you last comments, there is no doubt that your experience is bigger.

IMHO, Personal experience is limited to our own personal perception. It is limited information if we want to understand the complex political purpose behind Islam. We cannot understand Islam through experience with friends and so on.

I invite you to maintain a healthy conversation. It will help each other mutually

Please, Could you help me understand from your experience with muslims, why a british guy who served devotedly Islam during 15 years, and after he decided to leave Islam, has received death threat .. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7_YQ53lfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rTGyCXHOGQ
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:54 pm

This is like asking an atheist to explain/justify the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church or other extremist Chrtians (even Christianity itself) because he knows and is friendly with mainstream Christians. As if the atheist can't differentiate between mainstream and extremist members of a religion and should, like the critic who lacks the ability or desire to detect nuance, be expected to lump all adherents together.

It baffles me that people with very little to no personal experience with a religion or it's adherents are able to paint every member of a large, multi-sect religion with such a broad brush based not on any kind of serious study, but instead on heavily biased YouTube videos with an obvious agenda instead of focusing on the fact that there are religious extremists in the world. As if a Sufi and member of ISIL should be looked at and judged the same because, you know - "Muslim."

Should we all similiarly judge Christians and Christianity itself based on the beliefs and actions of the Westboro Baptist Church members? Should we have expectations that mainstream Christians need to defend Christianity itself based on the actions of more extreme Christians? It's as valid as someone who has never been to Perú and has never interacted with any Peruvians to condemn the entire country and people based on the actions of Sendero Luminoso or a news report of some thugs in Lima and label Perú and all Peruvians as a terrorist nation populated by criminals.

As easy as it is to point to objectionable parts of the Quran in order to be smear an entire religion and its Billions of adherents, it's just as easy to point to select parts of the Bible with equally objectionable passages and ideas along with some YouTube videos of the Westboro Baptist Church to smear Billions of Christians and Jews and Christianity/Judaism itself. It's not really that much harder to explore the subject without a preconceived hateful bias and take a more realistic view based on critical thought instead of purely emotion.

Is there even a problem with Muslim extremists here in Perú? I've known several Muslims when I lived in the US, all, without exception, just as 'normal' as any other American or immigrant who's come to America with hopes of participating in the American Dream. In four years of living here, I've yet to meet, or even see, a single Muslim in Perú, and I've never heard of any problems with Peruvian Muslims or Muslim immigrants living in Perú. Any examples of any problems at all with Muslims in Perú?

May cooler and more rational heads prevail that base their opinions on critical thinking instead of those too lazy or biased to give the subject much thought and allow their emotions to be played by YouTubers with an agenda and get their talking points from others so that they don't have to actually think for themselves. Let he without sin cast the first stone.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:42 pm

Iron,

Nobody said that all muslims are the same. The muslims in Turkey are secular. Religion and state are clearly separated in their country.

On the contrary, no-go zones in Sweden, UK and France is an evidence that there is a problem out there.

There is no death threat from Christians to ex-Christians.

Do you honestly think this video is part of an international complot or “agenda” against muslims ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaO3NKJa-8
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Re: Islam

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:03 pm

I'm not going to be drawn into making generalizations about Isalam or Muslims, nor am I going to try to explain, justify, or condemn the actions of a very small subset of Muslims and somehow extrapolate that to explain the whole of Islam. IMO, it's as futile and invalid as cherry picking events and select Biblical passages to explain/condemn all of Christianity/Judaism. Honestly, it's not really a subject that holds much interest for me. Like I've said, I haven't even encountered a single Muslim here in Perú. I have a far greater chance of being hurt or killed by a reckless driver than I ever will of being hurt or killed by a Muslim - terrorist or otherwise.

It's like when Trump Jr. tried to scare people with his Skittles/refugee analogy. In the US there's a only a one in over five billion chance of being harmed by a refugee so I don't understand the fear mongering and especially those who are gullible enough to fall for the fear mongering. Statistically, you're far more likely to die by choking on the Skittle, yet I don't see the outcry over Skittles or the propaganda suggesting one needs to fear the far more deadly Skittles. I'm fully aware these odds and the situation in Europe and the Middle East are different than they are in the US, but here in Perú I'd have to believe I'm even safer than I am if I were living in the already incredibly safe US.

Not that I don't feel for people getting beheaded half way around the world, but I accept that the world is not now or never has bee a perfect place and there are far worse atrocities being committed that have a far greater impact on a greater number of people. I only have so much time and energy and if I'm going to make time to focus on the negatives of the world and go on a crusade it's going to be for something that has a direct impact on me and my environment. I used to be an environmental activist who took part in direct actions, but that's a younger persons game so I try now to focus on the positives in the world.

I'm more interested in learning about other cultures and the positives of religion than living my live in fear of "others" and only focusing on the negatives propagated by fear mongers. I'd rather get my information from personal experience and talking to Muslims and a comparative religion class from a university or academic book instead of from a YouTuber with an agenda who likely has never bothered to talk to a Muslim or bothered educating themselves on the subject. YMMV.

If you're Latino, it's ironic that there are many in N. America who look at you as being the problem that needs to be eradicated; the "other" to be feared. Even if you're a good person, a professional, from a respectable family, etc., there is a large percentage of the US population who will prejudge you and never look at you as being anything but an invading force of problems who wants to change their way of life. They will never make any effort to understand you, your culture, or even consider you worthy of having your concerns as a human being considered. Sadly, it's easier for them to watch a YouTube video pointing out the evils of Latinos and prejudge you as a drug running rapist than it would be to empathize with you in even a minimal way. It might not be fair, but it would be ironic for those who live by generalizing others and their cultures to be generalized and stereotyped prejudicially themselves.

I disagree with your outlook, but I respect that you are willing to engage in conversation, and even if I'm not swayed by the videos you post, at least you're willing to post them in an effort to justify your position. Have a good night.
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Re: Islam

Postby tomsax » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:24 am

windsportinperu wrote:Tom,

I am very glad to receive your response about this thread. You are right when you say that my experience with muslims is quite limited. After reading you last comments, there is no doubt that your experience is bigger.

IMHO, Personal experience is limited to our own personal perception. It is limited information if we want to understand the complex political purpose behind Islam. We cannot understand Islam through experience with friends and so on.

I invite you to maintain a healthy conversation. It will help each other mutually

Please, Could you help me understand from your experience with muslims, why a british guy who served devotedly Islam during 15 years, and after he decided to leave Islam, has received death threat .. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7_YQ53lfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rTGyCXHOGQ


I don't know but I would guess that he received a death threat from some islamist extremist nutter. We all know that there are some in the UK. The nutters are small percentage of all Muslims and a small proportion of the nutters are actually dangerous. I have a good friend who was a devout Muslim and then around 10 years ago he decided he was an atheist! I haven't asked him if he has ever recieived any death threats - perhaps I should ask him. I do know that he still has many Muslim friends, is married to a Muslim and lets his children be brought up as Muslims. In that he is a bit like in my situation married to a Catholic. The Muslims I know are as much against extreme Islamism as any reasonable person is, if anything more so as they live with the consequences more in their daily lives, in terms of the resultant prejudice, bad feeling, being held up at airports and the risk of being abused/threatened.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:36 am

Iron,

You have a good degree of nobleness in your words. I appreciate it a lot

Any kind of discrimination in my home country is unacceptable

I have lived my own personal long experience on how destructive ideologies can grow from being a tiny part to become a threat for the stability and existence of a country

The general perception is that a big percentage of peaceful muslims are followers of Sharia Law. They don't want violence, but they want Sharia Law
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:02 pm

Tom,

The victims are always the good people, in this case the good community of muslims

The perception of Islam is mainly based on what muslims and ex-muslims say about their religion. They are true best fund of information

It is my desire that this perception is wrong. Time will give the answer: 5 to 20 years from now..

In case of worsening situation in your home country and in general in Europe, then you might remember everything that has been spoken here
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Re: Islam

Postby tomsax » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:01 pm

No go areas in the UK due to muslims! I can't believe that silly idea is rearing its head again. There are some areas of London i might think twice about walking through but not because of muslims. Islamic extremism is a great concern but you really shouldn't worry about muslims in general. If we want a peaceful world that works we need to know when not to fall in with damaging generalisations. Those that cant except a diverse society are the problem in the UK, be they Islamic extremists or others idiots.
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Re: Islam

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:01 pm

Multiculturalism is enrichment and prosperity of a Society.

Peru and the rest of South American countries are an example.. Not accepting this is going backward

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