Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

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Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:27 pm

While the Rest of the Countries in South America have closed all borders, most of them are in Quarantine and Cancelled International Air, Maritime and Terrestrial Transport acroos countries; AMLO thinks everything is "all-right" and is kissing little children on the Streets

No closing borders, nothing happens in Mexico attitude spreaded by the President

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8KgYDqmvs


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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Formidable 1 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:54 pm

windsportinperu wrote:While the Rest of the Countries in South America have closed all borders, most of them are in Quarantine and Cancelled International Air, Maritime and Terrestrial Transport acroos countries; AMLO thinks everything is "all-right" and is kissing little children on the Streets

No closing borders, nothing happens in Mexico attitude spreaded by the President

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8KgYDqmvs


Must be lacking in experts there.
Couldn't he at least tell everyone to wash their hands for 20 seconds?
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:35 pm

windsportinperu wrote:While the Rest of the Countries in South America have closed all borders, most of them are in Quarantine and Cancelled International Air, Maritime and Terrestrial Transport acroos countries; AMLO thinks everything is "all-right" and is kissing little children on the Streets

No closing borders, nothing happens in Mexico attitude spreaded by the President

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8KgYDqmvs

Someone has to stand up to the hysteria. Viva Mexico
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:05 am

Amlo thinks Coronavirus is not a threat

Mexico celebrated a Massive Music Festival during 2 days. 14 an 15 March, about 40,000 persons - VIve Latino 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyHJBMwaK0g

Look what AMlo said at the minute 2:44 "no nos van a hacer nada los Infortunios, las Pandemias"
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:14 am

At last, a sane politician.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:44 pm

69roadrunner wrote:At last, a sane politician.


Would you feel the same way if you lived there?
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:47 am

Alan wrote:
69roadrunner wrote:At last, a sane politician.


Would you feel the same way if you lived there?

Clue me in. Why would me or anyone feel different? Why would anyone like to with a tyrannical, hysterical, knee jerk, me too government?
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:22 am

The Nothing happen to us attitude is not only hold by AMLO, but shared for a lot of Mexicans...

They think they are better prepared that the Rest of the World..

They think that kissiing little babies by the President is ok and "gringos" are against their President

They still insist that there is no imminent risk to close borders or lockdown

It is needed full spanish knowledge to understand the next video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAPuhqWtUYI
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 am

windsportinperu wrote:It is needed full spanish knowledge to understand the next video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAPuhqWtUYI


Then why post it? I, for one, have no full knowledge of Spanish. Besides, this is an English speaking forum. Does me no good.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:52 pm

69roadrunner wrote:
Alan wrote:
69roadrunner wrote:At last, a sane politician.


Would you feel the same way if you lived there?

Clue me in. Why would me or anyone feel different? Why would anyone like to with a tyrannical, hysterical, knee jerk, me too government?


Same reason some people idolize despotic regimes.. as long as they don't actually have to live there.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:45 pm

Alan wrote:
69roadrunner wrote:
Alan wrote:
69roadrunner wrote:At last, a sane politician.


Would you feel the same way if you lived there?

Clue me in. Why would me or anyone feel different? Why would anyone like to with a tyrannical, hysterical, knee jerk, me too government?


Same reason some people idolize despotic regimes.. as long as they don't actually have to live there.

Who or what are you calling a despotic regime? I was responding to windsportperu's post "Amlo thinks Coronavirus is not a threat Mexico celebrated a Massive Music Festival during 2 days. 14 an 15 March, about 40,000 persons".
The president of a country, duly elected by the people by the way, whose country is on par or below other countries with infections, yet, his country has NOT imposed despotic draconian measures.
Do you know the definition of despot? Maybe I have a different dictionary, enlighten me.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:41 pm

No, please don't misunderstand me. I was just following up on your answer to the question about whether you'd prefer to live in a country NOT taking measures as they are attempting to take in Peru. If I understand your answer correctly, you said that you would. That's fine and congruent.

I was making the analogy though about others who might idolize the government in places like Cuba, or Venezuela, when they actually don't have to live there. You see that all the time.

Ex mayor to Lima Ricardo Belmont spoke today on how he felt that the central government was being "fascist" (showing ignorance about the term), and how the quarantine was illegally limiting his constitutional rights.... so he made a point to go out. Of course, as a member of the upper class here, and politically connected, he'd have a better than average chance to get a respirator if he were suddenly taken ill.

I am definitely in the "better safe than sorry" camp, and every time I watch the news about Italy, my fears become even more grounded.

#yomequedaencasa
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:03 pm

This English Report describes well what is going on in Mexico

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -behavior/
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:31 am

windsportinperu wrote:This English Report describes well what is going on in Mexico

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -behavior/



What is this article saying? Mexico has a major out break while being so cavalier? Mass infections due to their sane approach? Imposing tyrannical measures? No. It is simply an article critical of a country not falling in lock step with the rest of the chicken little's of the world. The rest of the world should be embarrassed. A little jealousy, maybe? Like I said, the sane approach.

Unlike Peru who has placed "Restrictions on movement are being tightened across Peru. A curfew is in place between 8pm and 5am. Cars have been ordered off the roads – except for emergencies". Can you say the 'insane' approach?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... light-home
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:08 pm



In hindsight, maybe folks were a little cavalier about traveling while a pandemic was brewing in China, but live, learn and spend. It is the first event of this nature in recent history, so we are a little naive. The article quoted about mentions how "An economy-price seat will be $5,160AUD."

Ironically, look what is happening in Spain now in the tourism sector: hotels are being turned into hospitals as hospitals can't meet the demand for beds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OUp3yKwFo

Objectively speaking, there doesn't seem to be anything tyrannical or exaggerated about Peru's response.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:57 pm

AMLO said that he has a plan against the virus , and it will be launched, soon

Nobody knows when, but soon ..

We have to be more relax, he said

After that, he showed all his religious amulets as a protecting shield. Maybe as Part of the Plan ?

https://youtu.be/-nuP6RIQfiU
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:52 pm

A Pandemia has 6 stages. The Responsibilty of the Government is to declare the stage the Country is, depending on the Situation

While Peru declares that we are in stage 3, Mexico what is in a similar situation still thinks that they are in Stage 1..

Mexico should be in 3 as in Peru

Minute 01:00 Amlo promoting the population to leaves homes and walk on the Street.. Believe it or not !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh-5oNZ7hfg
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:42 pm

windsportinperu wrote:AMLO said that he has a plan against the virus , and it will be launched, soon

Nobody knows when, but soon ..

We have to be more relax, he said

After that, he showed all his religious amulets as a protecting shield. Maybe as Part of the Plan ?

https://youtu.be/-nuP6RIQfiU


What is Mexico doing wrong? Putting fear in the minds of the people? No. Forcing people to stay home with the force of law with a 3 year prison sentence if you go outside? No.

It is a small man that has to make fun of a mans religious beliefs. Maybe we all need some religion and not tyranny.

129,000,000 people in Mexico. 32.000,000 in Peru. 367 cases in Mexico. 416 cases in Peru. You see where I am going? Mexico has 4 times the population of Peru yet has a lot fewer cases per million by a landslide than Peru.

Again I ask, what is Mexico doing wrong? Maybe the question should be what are they doing that is right? They have a country much more healthier than Peru yet no threat of prison time.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:51 pm

69roadrunner wrote:
What is Mexico doing wrong? Putting fear in the minds of the people? No. Forcing people to stay home with the force of law with a 3 year prison sentence if you go outside? No.

It is a small man that has to make fun of a mans religious beliefs. Maybe we all need some religion and not tyranny.

129,000,000 people in Mexico. 32.000,000 in Peru. 367 cases in Mexico. 416 cases in Peru. You see where I am going? Mexico has 4 times the population of Peru yet has a lot fewer cases per million by a landslide than Peru.

Again I ask, what is Mexico doing wrong? Maybe the question should be what are they doing that is right? They have a country much more healthier than Peru yet no threat of prison time.


Maybe you are right. That would be good news for Mexico. Or maybe it's too early to see where transmission rates are going, and what true infection rates are.

Most of the deaths so far in Peru are in people who had been in Italy or Spain. Peru has very strong ties with these countries because of immigration there from the 80´s to the 2000's. Let's see how the numbers look in 2 or 3 week when the 3rd phase (community) transmissions kick in. That will be the real test of policy.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:51 pm

Your Analysis is ok, but you need more information to understand it deeper

1º Mexico is only making test to People with clear visible sickness : Fever +/or Persistent Dry Cough , There is no test for people with "mild symptons"

2º AFAIK, The Actual Test made in Mexico is knwon as "Rapid Test" what has demostrated to be imprecise inexact

3º Peru is using the Precise Test Method = Molecular Test

4º The Efectiveness of the Quarantine do not affect the above numbers yet, because the Sickness has an incubation period from 2 to 15 days . Some new studies has discovered that the Incubation period last more days , about 4 weeks

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... on-period/

5º We will see the Efectiveness of a Quarantine only after 2 or more weeks from the beginning of the Quarantine. In Peru It began 16 March

6º In Peru It took 2 or 4 days to People to begin to undertand the meaning and purpose of the Quarantine. The First Days there was no a Real Quarantine. So we have to extent 16 March to 20 March

7º In Summary Alan is Right. The numbers will say who is right and who is wrong around April 5th and on .. It is 20 more days

8º In the MeanWhile we have to take care of ourselves and our families
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:08 pm

Alan wrote: Or maybe


Or maybe we could just look at the cold, hard, actual, current numbers and trends, instead of interjecting 'maybes'.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:11 pm

windsportinperu wrote:1º Mexico is only making test to People with clear visible sickness : Fever +/or Persistent Dry Cough , There is no test for people with "mild symptons"

2º AFAIK, The Actual Test made in Mexico is knwon as "Rapid Test" what has demostrated to be imprecise inexact



Uhhh are you saying Peru has tested everyone? That is unusual other countries only test those with symptoms. There aren't even enough test kits to test everyone in other countries.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:34 pm

Alan,

Mexican Government was not allowing neither Private Laboratories nor Public Hospitals to test Coronavirus . Only was allowed testing people visibly sick

Mexico has a "new and weird" kind of variable for collecting data : They name it as "casos sospechosos" , it is people that is classified as "suspicious of being sick", but not much for testing them :o

This 25th March, was recently authorised 8 Private Laboratories and 43 Public Hospitals to test people , so the data they had was fake :(

One of main authorities in Mexico - Gobernor in Puebla said that the Virus will only be harmful to Rich People !

https://youtu.be/ASPuiUqXfkY
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:58 pm

Here are some "cold, hard, actual, current numbers" that clearly point out the prevailing trend which is an exponential increase in cases, increasing exponentially faster:

“It took 67 days from the first reported case to reach the first 100,000 cases. 11 days for the second 100,000. And just four days for the third 100,000,” WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a news conference.

Since then, 1.5 days for the fourth 100,000. Not sure how many days (it's probably down to being measured in hours at this point) it took to get to the fifth 100,000.

Here's an article I came across on how 'Lockdowns work against coronavirus.' Quotes some experts from Johns Hopkins.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020 ... -new-cases

Not making fun of anyone's religion, and I'm usually strongly against governments taking away rights (like the post 9-11 PATRIOT Act in the USA that was anything but temporary) but I'll take a temporary lockdown/solution suggested by medical and scietific professionals over religious faith anyday when it comes to dealing with a highly contagious, fast spreading global pandemic.

Last I looked, President Vizcarra has a 95% (mas o menos, and another cold, hard, actual current number) approval rate for how he's dealing with the virus, so Peruanos aren't looking at his actions as being 'tyrannical' or 'hysterical.'
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:33 am

Hey if you want to just support a governments tyrannical and hysterical whims go ahead. No one is arguing that. All I am arguing is Mexico, a nation not hopping on the hysterical bandwagon, has a different approach that, at the worse, has no more infections than other countries that have swallowed the pablum. In Mexico's case, they have fewer cases per million. Cold hard fact. So they must be doing something right.

This idea that they are somehow using different testing methods is laughable. Are there Mexicans dropping dead in the streets? Overflowing hospitals? People in a panic? People still show up sick no matter the testing methods. Where are they?

Cold hard fact, public approval rate means nothing when fighting a virus, cold hard science does not hysteria. If Peruvians like their presidents approach, fine. If President Vizcarra wants to be a follower and not a leader like Mexico, fine. If he wants to lock down the country and threaten people with 3 year prison terms, fine.
You can not deny Mexico's cold hard numbers.


Windsport. You leave me speechless. Where do you get all that information? There are other outlets than youtube.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:14 pm

I think it's logical to, if not flat out "deny Mexico's cold hard numbers," to at the very least be skeptical of them and question. I'm not personally trusting Mexico's, and many other countries, self-reported numbers to be accurate. Reports are suggesting that Iran, Indonesia, and India are undereporting their numbers. Many countries are understesting their populations. Other countries realize that testing is the key to isolating the infected and slowing the spread. But in the short term, testing means the numbers go up. "Leaders" like Trump are more concerned about that than keeping people healthy. Compared to other professions, politicans are not considered to be all that trustworthy. I'm less likely to take their cold hard numbers based solely on their word that they're true, but I'm a skeptic when it comes to politicians.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21194153/ ... ases-world

I think Mexico is pulling a Trump. If you test fewer people, you can keep the number of confirmed cases artifically lower than the actual number of people who, if given a test, would test positive. The old 'head in the sand' approach to a problem, or to quote him directly, "I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship" A minute after saying that a reporter asked Trump about disbanding the White House pandemic response team in 2018. His answer: “I just think this is something that you can never really think is going to happen.” That's not leadership or being concerned with the safety and health of your citizens.

Trump tried the head in the sand approach, firing off nasty tweets, and blustering his way through it, but a global pandemic which is a scientific crisis doesn't repsond to bluster in the same way he's used bluster to get through his other, political, crisises. Since the US is now #1 in number of cases, the reality of the situation has obviously caught up with and surpassed the bluster. Note too that at the time of this chart (only 6 days ago) the number of US cases was only around 14,000 where at this hour it's now over 6.5x that at around 93,000.

Image
Hopefully Mexico, for whatever reason, is spared from what their neighbors to the North and countries in Asia, Europe, and the Middle East are going through. I see President Obrador is taking a page out of the Trump book, telling people not to worry, that everything is under control, not to succumb to "fear and psychosis," but he's also writing checks he can't cash. He claims there are sufficient medical personnel and supplies in Mexico to handle the situation if it were to get worse. Unfortunately, he's lying about personnel and supplies. I'll take the numbers of independent worldwide health organizations and other organizations over the supposed cold hard numbers offered by self-serving politicians any day.

According to the video in the NY Times linked story bleow: "according to a recent O.E.C.D. report, Mexico has fewer nurses and fewer intensive care beds per capita than Italy, South Korea, and the US. A count of ventilators in state facilities revealed only about 2,050 machines in the entire country." A flight attendent, freely walking around D.F. without a mask said "We are on a petri dish most of the time, so I might already be exposed - more likely on the plane than probably here." If true, she's spreading whatever she may have contracted on her flights all around - coronavirus will spread through Mexico. A hospital administrator is wondering how they are going to prepare saying "we know the explosion of cases is going to be in the next weeks." People interviewed are saying their president is doing nothing and that it is going to keep spreading and increasing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/worl ... exico.html

I don't know what scientific reason people are using to justify their belief that Mexico doesn't and will continue not to have a coronavirus situation. I haven't come across any reporting from reputable and non-political sources that suggest Mexico is taking the right steps and isn't subject to the coronavirus like the entire rest of the world's population. I'm open to reading such reporting if anyone can supply a link. Mexico and it's health system are clearly not prepared with sufficient personnel and supplies to deal with the problem when it comes; if it hasn't already and is just being ignored and not reported by the government.

Time will tell if Obrador is right, or like much of the rest of the world that falsely claimed to have it under control and that the number of cases in their country would soon drop to zero, and who ignored and refused to prepare even though knowing the scope of the problem in Italy, Spain, and the rest of Europe. Obrador's bluster will likely catch up with him in the coming weeks (if not sooner) and his country will find itself in the same position the US is in now. Probably worse considering the worldwide demand for ventialtors, masks, and other medical supplies which other countries are buying up now. I hope I'm wrong, but recent history and the evidence suggests I'm not.

Just saw that UK PM Boris Johnson has tested positive. He ignored the situation when he could've taken preventive actions as well and it hasn't done England, or him personally, any good.

Better the future news stories about this be that our leaders overreacted than many people needlessly lost their lives because our leaders didn’t do enough - though it's already too late for that in many countries.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:43 pm

noclevername wrote:I think Mexico is pulling a Trump.



Ok gotcha, all roads lead to Trump's fault.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 pm

69roadrunner wrote:
noclevername wrote:I think Mexico is pulling a Trump.



Ok gotcha, all roads lead to Trump's fault.

I didn't say, or even suggest that. But anyone who has paid attention to recent events can see that his dismantling of federal agencies that were set up to deal with global pandemics such as the one we're going through right now, cutting the budgets of agencies that deal with these things as recently as early February, and his remarks saying 'there's nothing to worry about, all is well, this will miraculously go away, the stock market looks good to me right now, etc.,' have clearly had a direct impact on where his country finds itself today.

I get that he's not a Harry Truman 'the buck stops here' kind of president who accepts the ultimate responsiblity for his administration. Quite the opposite. He's blaming his predecessor (who I'm not a fan of either) for creating testing barriers that never existed. Yet more lies. He's saying "I'm not responsible." For anything.

I get that he's not a Winston Churchill or F.D.R. type of leader. But he did run for the office, he is the leader of the free world, and he took on a responsibility to efficiently and responsibly govern. I don't think he really wanted to win. I don't think he wanted the responsiblities that come with the office. But he swore an oath. If he didn't want the responsibility, he shouldn't have run figuring he would lose but use the free publicity to enlarge his base and launch a televion network.

But instead of addressing Trump, what about the cold hard numbers that are being said about Mexico and it's lack of preparedness. What about the suggestions that many countries (Iran, US, China, Russia, etc.) are underreporting the number of cases/deaths and the cold hard numbers aren't really all that accurate? What about the cold hard numbers coming out of countries like S. Korea who through strict social distancing measures and taking responsible actions seem to be dealing with coronavirus better than countries who are doing nothing or have waited far too long to make a positive difference?

Let's see what the cold hard numbers are in Mexico (as undereported as they may be) in the coming weeks.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:49 am

Mexico’s Coronavirus-Skeptical President is Setting Up His Country For a Health Crisis

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21193823/ ... ealth-care

What's going on in Mexico sounds familiar. Budget reductions to the health system, though not sure if AMLO also eliminated government task forces whose job it was to montior and deal with global pandemics. The messaging sounds familiar as well: “Live life as usual,” he said in a video posted to Facebook on March 22, showing him outside at a restaurant. “If you’re able and have the means to do so, continue taking your family out to eat … because that strengthens the economy.” The reality is quite the opposite.

AMLO’s advice, experts say, is deadly. What makes matters worse is that his policies over the past few years have set the stage for a profound health crisis. In a major effort to cut government spending, AMLO has reduced funds for the country’s hospitals and medical centers by millions. It’s left the nation short of physicians, medical equipment, beds, and coronavirus tests.

They're likely a couple of weeks away from the US, who were a couple of weeks behind Italy. Kind of a shame since they were able to handle H1N1 which originated in Mexico. “We acted then like South Korea has today,” said Alejandro Macías, the “czar” for the government’s emergency response at the time.

“This is going to be as bad as Italy, or worse,” Dr. Francisco Moreno Sánchez, who’s overseeing coronavirus patients at the ABC Medical Center in the capital, told the New York Times on Tuesday.

Macías, the H1N1 czar, told me then-President Felipe Calderón and his team sprang into action in two main ways to curb the spread. They had no other choice, he said: “We were the China of that outbreak.”

First, they instituted strict social distancing measures. Calderón shut down government agencies and nonessential businesses, and told everyone to stay inside. “There is no safer place than your own home to avoid being infected with the flu virus,” the president said during an April 29, 2009, national address.

Second, the administration tested as many Mexicans as possible to track the spread of the virus and quarantine the sick and those that may have come in contact with them.


The article goes on to explain, with sourced references, how AMLO left Mexico vulnerable to the coronavirus.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:19 am

This article is interesting. Sweden is a country that is following a much milder path, and one of the reasons mentioned in the article is that the state can trust the people to behave and abide by the rules.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/worl ... virus.html
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:19 pm

After a notorious recent jump in numbers of "new" cases in Mexico, Health Minister of Mexico is now scared to death

He stepped back and now is saying Stay at home, Stay at home, Stay at home !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vl4gNx8HuA
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:17 pm

AMLO's starting to sound a bit paranoid, worried 'his opponents—“the conservatives”—would try to fill the void. “That’s what they want: for a vacuum to happen so that they claim control of the country,” he claimed.'

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... ident.html
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:27 pm

Noclevername Thanks for the Link !

Amlo is probably too old to govern a Country as Mexico under this circunstances
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:52 pm

I do not understand this morbid competition with Mexico. Have you seen the most recent numbers? Peru now has more cases than Mexico (Peru 2561, Mex 2143). Keep in mind Mexico has 4 times the population. Please explain. Honestly Mexico is a better place to be than Peru, if you are afraid to get the virus.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:08 pm

You seen to misunderstand the whole thread from the beginning

It is Critisism agasint the Behaviour of AMLO and the rest of the Staff around him..

Fortunately he already stepped back and his insame recommendations are not listened anymore
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:11 pm

What do I not understand....pleeese
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:25 pm

If I tell you how Amlo stepped back and what he said the last days, probably you will put him in the list of Tyrannic Rulers of the World :D
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:28 pm

You got that right, he did not act as a tyrant as in other countries, oh I dunno like Peru???
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:52 pm

Japan is another country that resisted strong measures from the outset, but which are now about to follow much stricter measures due to the sudden spike in infections.

Japan has avoided the large number of Covid-19 cases and deaths that have prompted lockdowns in other countries, but there is growing alarm over the rise in infections in the capital, particularly among young people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus

The Prime Minister of Britain, who resisted tight rules has just been admitted to hopsital for testing, sick with coronavirus.

And in Brazil, state governors are applying their own measures in wake of Bolsonaro's inaction as numbers begin to spike.
https://brazilian.report/coronavirus-brazil-live-blog/

One person's tyrant is another one's protector.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:03 pm

Alan wrote:The Prime Minister of Britain, who resisted tight rules has just been admitted to hopsital for testing, sick with coronavirus.

What is your point? Because he resisted tyrannical rules? Have you looked at the numbers, worldwide? Many many many people have the virus. Do not confuse having a virus as some sort as the end of the world.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby Alan » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:08 pm

I am not confused at all. My point, since I did not make it clear, is that "tyrannical" and "tyranny" are relative terms. You think some leaders have avoided tyrannical behavior, like AMLO, while I think that they have shirked their responsibility and have lacked leadership. I suspect that some, such as Boris Johnston (who was moved to intensive care today) now regret their decisions.

Time will be the judge, but the way things are moving now, I think I am right. But maybe not... let's see what the numbers hold in another week or two.

And no, having the coronavirus isn't the end of the world, although it has been for at least 74,000 people in the past few months.

From today's NYT:

There is a terrible week ahead in America — one of “death” and “sadness,” the White House has warned — as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.S. surged above 350,000 on Monday, the national death toll exceeded 10,000, and public health officials cautioned that even those grim numbers understated the true scale of the epidemic.


The U.S. is now by far the hardest-hit nation in the world, with more confirmed cases than the next three — Spain, Italy and China — put together. And the New York City area is the hardest-hit part of America, with hundreds of deaths daily and harrowing scenes of panicked doctors and besieged hospitals.


Meanwhile:

The American Civil Liberties Union has sued Puerto Rico over the island’s curfew, calling it unconstitutional.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:38 am

="Alan" ... like AMLO, while I think that they have shirked their responsibility and have lacked leadership. I suspect that some, such as Boris Johnston (who was moved to intensive care today) now regret their decisions. ...


Thumb up !

It had to be said and it was said
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby noclevername » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:33 am

I´m more concerned about Peru dealing with coronavirus than I am of President Vizcarra, but apparently there´re people who fear him more than a highly contagious global pandemic.

I´m curious if anyone who finds the current, and more than likely, temporary rules here in Peru to be tyranical will be hightailing it out of here once the borders here and in other countries are again open for crossing.

If an expat doesn`t like the country they`ve expatriated to they`re free to return to their home country. Or if not tryranical Peru or their home country, some other country on the planet where they find the government not to be tyranical.

If I thought the place I was living as an expat was tyranical because of this lockdown (or any other reason) I´d be using this time stuck in the house to figure out where I was going to move to once these restrictions end. And once they did (I´ll bet any amount they will) Í`d book passage and flee the tyrany. With so many options of where to live I wouldn´t voluntarily live in a country I believe is tyranical. Life´s too short, and ironically societies are too free with open travel to be stuck living under tyrany when there are numerous options.

When I think of tyranical countries I think of right wing and/or authoritarian regimes such as N. Korea, China, Phillipines, some Middle Eastern regimes, etc.; but not Peru, or any of the other nations who are using lockdowns but also are looking to end the restrictions as soon as possible so as to start rebuilding their economies.

So to those who find Peru to be tyranical, will you be fleeing this tyrany when the restrictions end? If so, where looks better to you? Last I read, Brazil under right wing Bolsonaro doesn´t have any national stay at home orders, though plenty of Brazilians find his rule to be tryanical, depending on their ethnicity. If you´re not going to flee Peru and its tyrany, why not? Why continue to voluntarily live under tyrany when you have other options?

Or maybe all the talk is just hyperbole?
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:13 am

Mexico is still on Stage 2

While in Peru it is obligatory to use a Face Mask , the bad example shown by Amlo, is followed by a good portion of the Population.

Minute 00:45 , People packed trying to buy fish and not even half of the population is using face mask. Some few of them are using the masks, but they are not fit properly on their faces. The noses outside of the masks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-XoXhjePzU
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:44 am

windsportinperu wrote:Mexico is still on Stage 2

While in Peru it is obligatory to use a Face Mask , the bad example shown by Amlo, is followed by a good portion of the Population.

Minute 00:45 , People packed trying to buy fish and not even half of the population is using face mask. Some few of them are using the masks, but they are not fit properly on their faces. The noses outside of the masks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-XoXhjePzU

Peru 2,974 cases 90 cases per million
Mexico 2,785 cases 22 cases per million

Keep in mind, Mexico has 4 times the population and Peru has limited resources for testing so it is likely Peru's numbers are higher. Looks like Peru needs to follow Amlo's example.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby gerard » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:53 pm

69roadrunner wrote:Peru 2,974 cases 90 cases per million
Mexico 2,785 cases 22 cases per million

Keep in mind, Mexico has 4 times the population and Peru has limited resources for testing so it is likely Peru's numbers are higher. Looks like Peru needs to follow Amlo's example.


Curious to know what reason, other than little testing and massive under-reporting of cases, you'd ascribe to Mexico's apparent resistance to Covid-19 given the lack of measures they have been taking? Would you agree, for example, with:

Miguel Barbosa Huerta, the governor of Puebla, claimed that only the wealthy were at risk of COVID-19, since the poor are immune. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro ... _in_Mexico)

Or do you have another explanation? How has AMLO seemingly got it so right when most countries seems to have it so wrong?

For the record, I'm of the opinion the numbers Mexico are quoting are nonsensical and it is pretty much impossible for a country taking few social distancing measures and having 4x the population of Peru to have fewer cases.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby gerard » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:29 pm

According to today's technical report from Mexico (https://www.gob.mx/cms/uploads/attachment/file/546218/Comunicado_Tecnico_Diario_COVID-19_2020.04.11.pdf) they've made 35479 tests and have 4219 confirmed cases with 9983 suspected cases, so potentially 14,202 with only 62.5% of the number of tests of Peru (56681). If it scaled up to the same number of tests it would suggest they'd have ~22500 cases, which seems realistic given the population difference.

Their problem now of course is that they are starting to take things seriously after too many people are infected which could lead to a much more rapid increase in cases and correspondingly severe measures to contain things.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:05 pm

Peru 6,848 cases 208 cases per million That's a whopping 3874 more since yesterday
Mexico 4,219 cases 33 cases per million That's a mere 1434 since yesterday.
Keep in mind Mexico has 4 times the population as Peru.

Quite a rise since yesterday for Peru. Despite the fact Peru has scared it citizens by locking down the country and masks be worn and Mexico has taken the high road and not frightened it's citizens to death.

Think of what the numbers would be if Peru had followed Mexico's, less stressful example. We all know what stress can do to ones health.

Mexico has lower numbers simply because they have not panicked its people causing stress.
Cold hard numbers with no, if this, if that, ands, buts or needless panicking the people or if aliens landed.
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby gerard » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:40 pm

69roadrunner wrote:Mexico has lower numbers simply because they have not panicked its people causing stress.
Cold hard numbers with no, if this, if that, ands, buts or needless panicking the people or if aliens landed.


Mexico has lower confirmed cases because their policy is to only test something like 1 in 10 of presenting cases. Their own health ministry estimates the actual number was around 26,000 in early April.https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/mexicos-health-ministry-estimates-there-are-26000-covid-19-cases-country
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Re: Coronavirus and the nothing-happens attitude of AMLO, President of Mexico

Postby 69roadrunner » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:49 pm

Just an estimate buddy. Like Joe Friday says The facts, just the facts. Which I have provided, no estimates facts. Face it, Mexico's got it wired.

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