There's A China Virus Vaccine!!

[69roadrunner]

Time to rejoice? Not so fast, of course.
It is said the China virus vaccine is only 95% effective. Stats tell us that less than 5% of the population will even get the virus and less than that 5% will even know they have it and way, way less will even be hospitalized and way, way, way less, than that 5%, will even die......why take the vaccine? What is its purpose? What's the big deal?

A terrible precedent has been set. A gov't can shut down a society on a PERCEIVED threat, against the will of the people. We let them do it. I hope we learned our lesson.

But not so fast.

The US has taken notice. Law makers have been trying to ban guns for years, now there is more ammo for that. Law makers are now saying guns are a health threat just as not wearing a mask or eating in a restaurant is a health threat. That is just one example. Can you say slippery slope? Maybe you can say scammed again. How about totalitarianism?

[alan]

You are fortunate that 19 has not struck your family or your circle of friends , which might explain in part your repeated posts.

We woke up to the news that a very good friend of my wife´s family died yesterday of coronavirus. It was very fast, and he went while his family was rushing to find him a bed at a hospital. My wife had visited them only 3 weeks ago and she was impressed at how much care he was taking by keeping a safe distance. Nobody knows how he became infected. I know another man very, very well who was been in intensive care for 3 months. He will survive, but his recovery will be long and trying. Another friend had her husband in intensive care for 2 months, close to death. He has begun to recover and is finally at home, but his vocal cords are heavily damaged. One of our employees lost his 40 year old brother at the start of the epidemic. He lived in Pucallpa and was diabetic. Two other employees had their fathers on oxygen at home. A woman who my wife studied with lost her 20 year old son (asthmatic). Two men that worked at the club I belong to have died, one worked in the locker room, the other in the social room. I knew them, they knew me. We were not friends, but they were men I would say "hello" to on a weekly basis. These are not seven-degrees-of-separation fatalities.

This continues to be a serious problem in Peru, and a few other countries that either did not know how, or worse - to care to - take the proper measures. The only upside to this disaster is that Peru might be one of the first countries to reach herd immunity.

I hope everyone stays safe over the holidays. Wash your hands, reduce your exposure to other people, wear a mask, and be careful what you believe.

A vaccination program that reaches all Peruvians is a long, long way away, but the news that vaccinations have begun - at least internationally - are lulling people into a false sense of security.

[billybob72]

Time to rejoice? Not so fast, of course.
It is said the China virus vaccine is only 95% effective. Stats tell us that less than 5% of the population will even get the virus and less than that 5% will even know they have it and way, way less will even be hospitalized and way, way, way less, than that 5%, will even die......why take the vaccine? What is its purpose? What's the big deal?

A terrible precedent has been set. A gov't can shut down a society on a PERCEIVED threat, against the will of the people. We let them do it. I hope we learned our lesson.

But not so fast.

The US has taken notice. Law makers have been trying to ban guns for years, now there is more ammo for that. Law makers are now saying guns are a health threat just as not wearing a mask or eating in a restaurant is a health threat. That is just one example. Can you say slippery slope? Maybe you can say scammed again. How about totalitarianism?

Are you always this charmless, like in real life? I know that this would be sanctioned heavily whereas online you get the attention you crave without any of the consequences.

I know this is a troll answer but it is in response to a troll OP. I hope you find happiness and inner solitude in the future.

[69roadrunner]

You seem upset. Calm yourself, the virus will soon pass. The sun will come out tomorrow.

[noclevername]

Your stats have been pretty dodgy in the past, such as in this thread you started and where the logic of the stats you presented was shown to be a bunch of Q-Anon nonsense that was easily disproven. Loose math, loose statistics, bad intepretations of data.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32049&p=160364&hilit=covid#p160364

There's also the fact that because this is still a relatively new virus we don't exactly know what the long term health effects will be for the millions of people who've contracted COVID. Lot of suggestions of people having long term lung issues and other medical complications that will contine long after they've recovered from COVID.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... ew%20weeks.

So many people demonstrate their humanity, or lack there of, by making statements such as 'I don't know anyone who's died from it, so it can't be that big a problem. It's just a hoax.'

I choose to focus on those who are unfortuate enough to have contracted this virus, esp. those who've taken this seriously and taken the suggested precautions, as opposed to those who are inconvenienced because they can't go to a disco or movie theatre and feel their lives are so negatively impacted that they feel the need to exagerate and suggest that they are living in a totalitarian state because they are having to make sacrifices. These types usually have never experienced actual totalitarianism in their personal lives compared to people who have lived under true totalitarianism run by dictators, experienced what it's like to live in a war zone, what it's like to live in poverty, or any other true hardships. Bunch of softies who can only focus on themselves and melt like snowflakes over what mildly inconveniences them during a global pandemic. These types wouldn't last a week living in a true totalitarian state, a war zone, an impoverished area without the luxury of having a first-world income/pension to rely on, etc. In a way I feel sorry for them for their weakness, even though their weakness is of their own choice and not due to the randomness of where they're born, where war breaks out, etc. And guaranteed that when border restrictions are lifted (happening soon in many places) these people who cry "tyranny" won't do anything to improve what they believe is a tyranical system being forced upon them. They won't buy a one-way ticket and move to somewhere where they feel things are less tyranical in order to escape, like those who flee/fled true tyranny in places like Cuba, Venezuela, N. Korea, etc. People who flee/fled even though they don't have the same first-world resources that these whiners have.

Those who suggest it's all a scam, or a 'plandemic' can never explain who in the worldwide economy benefits from the death and dramatic negative impacts to economies other than the pharmaceutical companies. Is there any other industry that benefits? I guess Amazon is doing better. Maybe it's a plot by those in the home delivery of goods industry who are trying to increase their profits?

[IntiPeque]

The flu vaccine is at best 65% effective, some years it is as low as 40% but millions (perhaps billions) of people get vaccinated each year. So, I would say 95% effectiveness is amazing. Using your logic (and I use the term very loosely), we shouldn't bother with the flu vaccine at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

Hospitals are already overflowing with people sick with COVID-19 regardless of whatever percentage of people you claim will actually get it, the actual number of people hospitalized with it is what counts. People with other medical needs are not able to get a hospital bed because they are all being taken up with COVID-19 patients. Unless we get the infection rate down, the hospitals are not going to be able to cope. I'm sure you have heard about various cities in the US having to use refrigerated trucks as temporary mobile morgues but you don't seem to mind that. A woman in a nearby town to me had a stroke and needed surgery. They tried to fly her to a nearby hospital but couldn't as they had no beds available. She died a few hours later.

As for your gun comment, law makers are not trying to take everyone's guns away (although American's obsession with them is subject to much confusion in civilized countries). The goal of gun reform is to prevent someone who is mentally unstable or a felon from having easy access to a deadly weapon that can kill a lot of people in a matter of seconds. Everyone has to take a written test before they get a drivers license, they then have to take a driving test to show that they are capable of operating it in a safe matter but heaven forbid we check someone out before giving them a weapon that is more suited to military use.

I would be more concerned about the rise of Fascism than Totalitarianism. When you have armed militia groups roaming the streets, making threats to elected officials who are simply doing their job, that is a slippery slope indeed. Its Christmas next week - can you imagine Christ going to the Michigan State Capital building with a semiautomatic weapon, waving a Confederate flag and berating the Governor for asking people to wear a simple mask & follow other CDC guidelines to reduce the spread of this virus? So many people call themselves Christians but behave in a most un Christian manner. Talk about hypocrisy.

[69roadrunner]

Never heard that 65% rate but if it fits your narrative, fine.

And I bet her death was counted as death by the deadly virus.

Well I guess you never read the US Constitution. The part where it says "right to bear arms"? You will never find the words "except for........" By the way, driving a car is NOT a right but owning fire arms IS a right.

Those in the US been there done that for almost the past year, now, in the US. It wasn't Jesus but it was those that deny His teachings and the teachings of most of the worlds religions. Can you say Seattle? Portland? Can you say antifa? Or black lives matter....hmmm? Wasn't Jesus or any of His followers.

It all boils down to, is it really worth scaring people to death (literally) and shutting down societies? It seems you do, good for you. I guess you are not one that has lost their job, lost a home, unable to send your kids to school and the rest of the madness. Your belly is full. Good for you. You might want to enlighten yourself look at the other side of the coin, though.

[noclevername]

It all boils down to, is it really worth scaring people to death (literally) and shutting down societies? It seems you do, good for you. I guess you are not one that has lost their job, lost a home, unable to send your kids to school and the rest of the madness. Your belly is full. Good for you. You might want to enlighten yourself look at the other side of the coin, though.

Since you say "literally" could you please provides some links to back up this statement that people aren't dying of the virus, but instead because of being 'scared to death?' I'd be very interested in reading more information on this and am curious as to the sources of your information that your basing this statement on. Are they medical profesionals/coroners who've listed the official cause of death as (literally) fear, fright, being scared, etc., or are the sources non-medical professionals, people not in any kind of position to officially state the cause of death when they say people are being scared to death. In other words, is your statement based on the subjective opinion of others and 'fits your narrative,' or the objective opinion of the professionals who are responsible for making these official declarations, which wouldn't just fit a narrative, but give proof of that opinion? Thanks for any links.

[69roadrunner]

[quote="IntiPeque"
although American's obsession with them is subject to much confusion in civilized countries[/quote]
I guess the "confusion in civilized countries" comes from the fact that they never rose up against their kings when the kings of those "civilized countries" would not lift their foot from their subjects throats and rise up with arms and tell their tyrant king NO MORE. Hence the need for arms. Aside from France I am confused why more European countries never rose up.
No confusion at all, unless you accept your tyrant kings terms, America did not.

[69roadrunner]

[quote="IntiPeque"
although American's obsession with guns is subject to much confusion in civilized countries

I guess the "confusion in civilized countries" comes from the fact that they never rose up against their kings when the kings of those "civilized countries" would not lift their foot from their subjects throats and rise up with arms and tell their tyrant king NO MORE. Hence the need for arms. Aside from France I am confused why more European countries never rose up.
No confusion at all, unless you accept your tyrant kings terms, America did not.

[woodchuck]

This post is very convoluted & even talks about guns (not on topic).
I am posting about 69roadrunner's post "calm yourself, the virus will pass."
That's what Donald Trump said some 11 months ago & look where the U.S. is.
CA has more deaths than in entire countries!
I feel there is a L-O-N-G way to go.
Happy Holidays & stay safe.

[69roadrunner]

You feel the scamdemic has a long way to go? Yeah that's true, if you/we continue to buy into the madness, it will N-E-V-E-R end.
Trumps statement is true but he is not in charge, as far as individual states are concerned. If he were, yes the madness, in the US, would be long gone by now.
You sound like Biden, he recently predicted "the darkess days are ahead of us". That is so true but NOT because of the scamdemic.

[noclevername]

It would be very helpful if you would post links to reliable sources that back up your claims because simply stating something as "true" doesn't make it so. For starters, how about something that backs up your recent claim that people are literally being scared to death. I asked before and I'll ask again, what is the source of that bold claim? If literal truth, there should be numerous links to reliable sources showing doctors and medical examiners who have listed fear as the cause of death on death certificates for people who have died with all of the causes experts are attributing to COVID, but I have never heard of this claim of the virus not killing people, but fear, from anywhere but here.

Far as I know no one here would qualify as being an expert on the subject of virology or any of the other disciplines relevant to the topic, but what I've seen is people posting links to reliable sources from experts when they post. Instead of those types of objective facts all we ever see from you on the subject are not posts filled with links to reliable sources referencing experts, but subjective opinions that use words such as "true" and "literal" without ever linking to anything proving these as being either true or literal. Or links to sources and statements which are so quickly and easily disproven, such as this:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32049&p=160364&hilit=covid#p160364

[noclevername]

You feel the scamdemic has a long way to go? Yeah that's true, if you/we continue to buy into the madness, it will N-E-V-E-R end.
Trumps statement is true but he is not in charge, as far as individual states are concerned. If he were, yes the madness, in the US, would be long gone by now.
You sound like Biden, he recently predicted "the darkess days are ahead of us". That is so true but NOT because of the scamdemic.

Actually, it could also be said he sounds like Trump - when Trump is being candid and not lying through his teeth.

There has been a lot of scamming that has been going on as far as politicians not telling the truth about COVID. They say one thing to their followers about COVID being a scam, a plot by their political enemies out to get them, etc., and then simultaneously (at the time) saying entirely different things in private.




The end of that last image's quote: "...I was in the White House a couple of days ago, meeting with 10 people in the Oval Office and a guy sneezed — innocently. Not a horrible ... you know, just a sneeze. The entire room bailed out, OK? Including me, by the way."

Why would the entire room, including the President, bail if it was only a scam?



I think it's more accurate to say that the madness is in continuing to believe what this charlatan says publicly to his followers and the rest of the country he's supposed to be leading, while knowing what he's admitted to in private conversations.

[noclevername]

Another scam:

Certain politicians got inside information about COVID, sold off their stocks to avoid any loses to their personal investment portfolios, warned their insider friends of the coming bad news that would no doubt have a negative impact on the markets, and then lied to their constituents soon after and told them not to worry, that the whole thing is a fraud or a scam. Of course they didn't tell their constituents that they're the ones actually running the scam and that they're running the scam on those very same constituents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Cong ... ng_scandal

[noclevername]

And yet another scam - claiming there was widespread fraud in the recent election that Trump lost, but like the posts here calling the virus a scam, offering zero proof and no evidence to back up the claims. Over 50 loses in court, to date, and only one win, which struck down an extended deadline the Pennsylvania secretary of state set for voters to cure mail-in ballots that were missing proof of identification, and likely only affected a small number of mail-in ballots.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... 3f0b3d2960

But the whole point is not to win in the courts, it's to keep Trump as the center of attention while also scamming guilable followers into believing there was fraud and to get those guilable followers to make money contributions to Trump. He says it's for the upcoming Georgia elections, but the small print says it's for his political action committee, i.e. it's his to spend as he wants. Scam.




Trump and his lead attorney are fully aware they're running a scam on his followers. Trump and Giuliani Tweet and make public proclamations of widespread election fraud because they know that making those false claims is not a crime. But when it comes time to testify in court where Giuliani would be subject to perjury and fully understands that a judge isn't nearly as easy to scam by making claims without presenting any proof or evidence Giuliani and the other lawyers change their tune:

In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.

https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-n ... nce-fraud/

Same reason why Trump made all sorts of claims publicly during the Mueller investigation, but his lawyers wouldn't let him actually testify - they were afraid he'd perjure himself.

It's too bad Trump's followers will never open their eyes enough to see that they're the ones being scammed.

[alan]

The current wave of pardons is distressing. Political impunity rots the soul of the institution from the inside out.

[69roadrunner]

Pardons? In a vaccine thread? Don't get the connection.

[alan]

Pardons? In a vaccine thread? Don't get the connection.

You are right, let's get the thread back on track.

[noclevername]

In the OP there's also mention of banning guns, scams, and tyranny. Talking about pardons doesn't seem any more off topic than those things mentioned in the OP in a vaccine thread, so why not? The recent pardons (and I'm sure those that will soon follow) seem as much of a scam as anything else. Plus, there's a brand new thread about COVID/vaccine, which I guess was created to distract from this thread and take it off track (to avoid mentioned inconvenient truths that don't fit the intended "scam" narrative and for obvious reasons don't want to be/can't be addressed, so create a new thread instead?) so I'm not really buying into the complaint. This is the "more relaxed" forum. If from the very first post it was made to be broad enough to include guns I don't see the harm in talking about pardons. No blood, no foul.

It's not like Trump is the only US President to make questionable pardons or the only President to ever pardon personal friends (looking at you, Bill Clinton), but I don't think any President other than Trump has pardoned people whose crimes they were convicted of were so closely tied to the actions of the President himself.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Trump tries to pardon himself during his final days on his way out. It's been obvious since at least the 1970's that Trump's all about Trump, and every action is done with the idea of benefitting himself; certainly not the country or it's citizens. Part of the scam he's running on his devout followers who can't admit (or even worse, can't see) that he cares nothing about them; he just wants their adoration. Fortunatley, pardons only apply to Federal crimes. Even if he could legally navigate a self-pardon, he could still have to deal with any State charges brought against him.

Hopefully a strict interpretation of the US Constitution is applied and the very old principle of natural law is recognized, as it was the last time there was the possibility of a US President granting himself a pardon for his crimes.

https://www.justsecurity.org/73539/why- ... itutional/

The phrase “grant pardons” contains the same sort of implicit, but well-understood, limitation. Both the etymology of the word “pardon” and our ordinary usage of it necessarily imply two persons. The Oxford English Dictionary explains that the English word “pardon” as both a noun and a verb is a borrowing from the French language and derives from two Latin roots: per, meaning “by,” and donum, a gift, or dōnāre, meaning to make a donation or gift. Thus, a pardon is a type of gift, and to pardon is to give such a gift. The act of gift-giving requires both a giver and a recipient. Although we sometimes loosely speak of giving ourselves a gift, in the sense of permitting ourselves an indulgence of some sort, the ordinary sense of the word gift, and thus of the act of pardon, requires two parties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_iudex_in_causa_sua

A Justice Department memo in August 1974, about Nixon’s impending resignation, begins, “Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself.” The maxim is so clear and widely accepted that the memo didn’t even cite anything else. It assumed that Nixon, or any president, could not pardon himself.