Gun Laws!

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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby goingnowherefast » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:56 am

Freedom isn't free fellas...

Meaning no disrespect, all I can say is that I think there's a lot of people who agree with this sentiment (personally I'm not one of them) and if you feel that passionately about it (like so many here seem to) then you can join them and help them. Chances are they will welcome you with open arms.

Or you can talk about it on expat peru....

Just sayin.


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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby rama0929 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Jimmy111 wrote::D
Im very good at history and law.
Anyhow. Americans wont do anything because they have been told their entire life not to. Someone else will do it for you. If the politicians are bad Just vote them out and change the law.


A cynically laughable view.

There are plenty of Americans who are handling their business, and are doing "something." Others like myself couldn't give two bits towards a politician, and whoever's in office doesn't necessarily mean I can't do anything.

Not all Americans are like that but the vast majority are.


I don't think you know enough Americans to make that claim

Then there is the fear of retalliation. The people in charge will take your stuff.... Maybe even throw you in Jail. But definatly take your stuff. Americans cant live without their stuff. Then when they come to take your stuff and you resist them, they will kill you. For the officers safety of course.


:shock:

What are you talking about?

It didnt used to be that way but it is now.


I'll need you to clarify whatever it is you're talking about above before I can accurately comment. But generally speaking, things have been the same, maybe the degrees, names, faces and places are different.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby rama0929 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:12 pm

mtwilson wrote:
rama0929 wrote:While you're at it, learn what "Fascism" is.

The 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere anytime soon.


Well I suppose I should apologize for throwing around a such loaded term such as fascism in such literal minded company.


Fair enough.

As you may or may not know, the term is hotly debated even in academic circles (wikipedia gives a pretty good treatment of the term here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism). Regardless, I use the term to refer to a more neo-fascist agenda which seems reasonable considering the way the world is changing.


From what I've seen, the definition of Fascist usually falls under
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_(epithet)

It's a word tossed around far too liberally. I'm fairly confident that if you were to talk to someone who has lived under a Fascist regime, and then compared that to the US, I doubt you'd be taken seriously.

My meaning was to point to the ever concentrating power of the executive and the dominant influence of corporate and financial interests in the the US which is eroding nearly all of the constitutional protections we used to assume were impervious to such shenanigans (witness the NDAA, the National Defense Resources Preparedness Order, etc.).


These have been around in one form or another for over 50 years.

Gen. Smedley Butler wrote about it back in 1935
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

The US doesn't become a superpower without the dominant influence of corporate and financial interests and it certainly doesn't get to be as big as it is today;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase (along with other territorial acquisitions)

And it the Civil War certainly doesn't happen without it.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby JoshuS » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:34 pm

mtwilson wrote:
rama0929 wrote:While you're at it, learn what "Fascism" is.

My meaning was to point to the ever concentrating power of the executive and the dominant influence of corporate and financial interests in the the US which is eroding nearly all of the constitutional protections we used to assume were impervious to such shenanigans (witness the NDAA, the National Defense Resources Preparedness Order, etc.).


One definition of fascism is the blending of corporate power and state, what we have in the US, the final consolidation of the corporate state imposing slowly but surely becoming a full fledged police state, ready to clamp on any form of dissent.

http://youtu.be/N2Xh5eN2fXY
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby mtwilson » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:55 pm

rama0929 wrote:It's a word tossed around far too liberally. I'm fairly confident that if you were to talk to someone who has lived under a Fascist regime, and then compared that to the US, I doubt you'd be taken seriously.


I do believe I did say "becoming" in both instances. And I have said that I am trying to apply a new or "neo" definition, so the comparison you continue to try to make still isn't really valid. Are you trying to say that the US does not appear to have aspects of it's modern government that could be considered fascistic, or are you nit-picking?

I think anyone who can contrast the experience of flying on an airplane fifteen years ago in the US with today could discern a fascistic tendency. Then there is also the militarization of the local police and good ol' NORTHCOM. All, I think, are pointers to a more fascistic flavor added to what many of us from the US recall from our childhoods.

rama0929 wrote:These have been around in one form or another for over 50 years.

Gen. Smedley Butler wrote about it back in 1935
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket


I am not trying to suggest that these tendencies haven't been there for a while (Gen. Butler is a personal hero of mine by the way), but there does seem to be a rise, or even an urgency in the rush to surveil and control the US population now. This is just my impression, so don't read too much into it. That opinion is bolstered, however, by the 30,000 drones which are slated to hit the US skys next year and the sound cannons, microwave weapons, heavy military equipment for local cops, a new super NSA data collection center in Utah, to name just a few tid-bits that actually make it through the tightly controlled US MSM.

All in all, my guess is that we would probably agree about most of this, but I suppose sparring far off topic is more fun. :wink:

Bottom line is that I came to Peru serendipitously and now that I am married to a wonderful Peruvian woman I have decided to make a home here. While I never really set out to "escape" from the US, now that I have lived abroad for the past five years I find it harder to imagine going back to live there permanently again.

I am grateful that I can build a home in the jungle in Peru and not be bludgeoned by regulators who wont allow me to experiment with permaculture and composting toilets and where, if I choose, I can still purchase a firearm for defense and sport. This is becoming more and more difficult to do in the US and yes, I fear for my country. I worry that there are going to be far worse times ahead and I don't like what I am seeing in the US and in many parts of the world. Will you seriously argue these points? If so, perhaps it is time to move on to other topics in the forum. I received the info. I was looking for (thanks Craig), and while these kinds of, ahem... debates, can be amusing, we are not really talking about gun laws anymore are we? Perhaps a new forum topic is in order for those who wish to discuss whether the US is becoming more fascist.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby craig » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:50 pm

mtwilson wrote:Perhaps a new forum topic is in order for those who wish to discuss whether the US is becoming more fascist.

On the odd chance than anyone is interested in exploring the deep and long established roots that fascism has in the United States:

Wolfgang Schivelbusch. Three New Deals: Reflections on Roosevelt's America, Mussolini's Italy, and Hitler's Germany, 1933-1939. Metropolitan Books: 2006.

A Kindle edition is available.

Wolfgang Schivelbusch, winner of the Heinrich Mann Prize, Germany's most prestigious nonfiction award, is an independent scholar who divides his time between New York and Berlin. His books include The Railway Journey, Disenchanted Night, and The Culture of Defeat, called "a work of brooding brilliance" by The New York Times.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:21 pm

Americans wont do that. Too afraid to lose their pensions....
..

"Pensions," what's that? Isn't that that thing people used to get when they retired back in the 50s and 60's?
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby Jimmy111 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 pm

renodante wrote:
Americans wont do that. Too afraid to lose their pensions....
..

"Pensions," what's that? Isn't that that thing people used to get when they retired back in the 50s and 60's?


Well, Private workers dont get much anymore. However goverment pensions are quite generous. I know a guy who worked as a diesel mechanic for the City of LA. He earned over 100,000 per year. His last year they made him a supervisor and he got a raise to 185,000 per year. They base your retirement income on your last year. So he recieves more than $120,000 per year plus medical, dental, vision and some life insurance for the rest of his life for doing absolutly nothing. He is 52.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby asgoodasitgets » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:49 pm

If anyone gets their pensions they won't buy anything when they do.

Fascism is when the government operates through corporations for corporate gain or the corporations operate the government for corporate gain. Whether you mix flour and water, or water and flour you still get dough... or perhaps "Doh". Either way, it's corporatism, and of course, corporatism necessarily has an oligarchy that pushes this situation into place, and they usually aren't going to be democratic, even within their own elite club.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby rama0929 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:52 pm

asgoodasitgets wrote:If anyone gets their pensions they won't buy anything when they do.


I take it you don't know anyone collecting a pension...
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

rama0929 wrote:
asgoodasitgets wrote:If anyone gets their pensions they won't buy anything when they do.


I take it you don't know anyone collecting a pension...


i think he was going with the whole "b/c we're all gonna be dead or all gonna be working on slave plantations for the Globalist Zionist Secret Society Elites by the time they're ready to collect their pensions" thing on that one. Like how the global economy was going to be collapsed by... when was the last count again? 2 months ago was it? It's kind of like Jesus coming back, you can always just keep pushing the date forward as time moves on and nothing happens.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby rama0929 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:40 pm

renodante wrote: It's kind of like Jesus coming back, you can always just keep pushing the date forward as time moves on and nothing happens.


Then when something finally does happen, you can claim you knew it all along. That's how it works, doesn't it? :mrgreen:
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:46 pm

rama0929 wrote:
renodante wrote: It's kind of like Jesus coming back, you can always just keep pushing the date forward as time moves on and nothing happens.


Then when something finally does happen, you can claim you knew it all along. That's how it works, doesn't it? :mrgreen:


and you were the one who predicted it.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:07 am

Owning a gun is a crime and should be punished severely. Guns are only used to kill people.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby goingnowherefast » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:59 pm

Image
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:33 pm

HAHAHA my favorite part of that movie.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby msmiller » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:55 am

I do not agree with you chi chi, since in my opinion gun is not intended to kill people, instead it is intended for self defense, for collection and for shooting as a sort of fun and leisure.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby craig » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:55 am

There is some information here about Peruvian gun laws.

Congreso planteó cambios en requisitos para tener armas de fuego

Code: Select all

                            Current          Proposed
Licence Period                 5 years        2 years
Minimum Age                   18             21 + mental heath certificate
Gun Registration              No              Yes
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:40 pm

craig wrote:There is some information here about Peruvian gun laws.

Congreso planteó cambios en requisitos para tener armas de fuego

Code: Select all

                            Current          Proposed
Licence Period                 5 years        2 years
Minimum Age                   18             21 + mental heath certificate
Gun Registration              No              Yes


Licence period should become 0 years and time in prison for possesing a gun should be 35 years.

Everywhere it should be like that.

This is why people legally buy guns for:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014172708
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby americorps » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:26 pm

chi chi wrote:
craig wrote:There is some information here about Peruvian gun laws.

Congreso planteó cambios en requisitos para tener armas de fuego

Code: Select all

                            Current          Proposed
License Period                 5 years        2 years
Minimum Age                   18             21 + mental heath certificate
Gun Registration              No              Yes


License period should become 0 years and time in prison for possessing a gun should be 35 years.

Everywhere it should be like that.

This is why people legally buy guns for:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014172708


I am very much in favor of strict limitation and regulation in buying, owning and operating guns though I am not in favor of banning guns. However, I feel very disappointed when gun control advocates such as Chi Chi or gun freedom advocates exaggerate or operate dishonestly to try and justify this point of view.

Chi Chi has not told the truth when he said guns are only used to kill people. Hunters, target shooters, collectors, and people use guns for self defense and sometimes even art. I feel if Chi Chi feels he can not make his point and be fully honest about it, he cheapens the debate. I am not denying his right to say what he wants to say, only that I find it shameful that he fees he can not support his points of view while being honest.

However, as that is a value I hold, I feel just as deeply shamed and disappointed when open gun advocates simply ignore and bypass reasonable regulations for guns. They dismiss shooting death statistics from all sorts in countries with and without gun control, unless they can pick and choose what countries they use statistics and what countries they ignore. One particular items that irks me about gun freedom advocates are the fact that studies have shown that given the following scenarios:

Buying bleach and fertilizer in bulk warrants an investigation into possible terrorist activities

Buying Cough medicine in bulk warrants an investigation into possible drug activities

but buying assault weapons and bulk ammo does not. To me that seems an unsupportable contradictory set of values.

I guess, overall, my comments are not aimed here at pro or anti gun control laws, but at an extgreme disappointment with the level of debate from some advocates on both sides of the issue who feel the intense need to bend and twist the truth to a point of unrecognizably to try and make their point.

Do you not realize you fail your point of view when you do that?
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:09 pm

craig wrote:There is some information here about Peruvian gun laws.

[code] Current Proposed
Licence Period 5 years 2 years
Minimum Age 18 21 + mental heath certificate


A mental health certificate? Serious gun crimes like mass shootings aren't carried out by mentally unstable people.

Like in Colorado this week. That guy was a very intelligent university student. 4 days later the police is still trying to figure out how to dismantle the booby traps in his appartment. The Colorado police is even considering just to let the bombs go off because they don't know how to dismantle it. A retarded and stupid soul isn't capable to make such bombs.
And terrorists aren't retarded people either. They are generally intelligent people with a very good education. They easily obtain a mental health certificate.

Americorps. Sorry again about telling my personal opinion. I don't expect everybody to be agree with me and I respect other people their opinions too. Yours as well. But this is a forum. And the purpose of a forum is that people can tell their opinion about things.

You mentioned that people use guns for self defence? Last week in Belgium, somebody shot a burglar. He know faces up to life in prison for that. With some luck he will get away with 20 years only.

Leave using a gun to the police. They are trained and know when and when not to shoot. That's why you pay taxes for anyway.
I know, it's depressing to see someone breaking in your home but you got no right to decide to kill that person.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby Kelly » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:17 pm

Intelligence has nothing to do with mental stability. Just sayin'.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby americorps » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Chi Chi,

I did not criticize you for your opinion, I said in some ways I agree with it, I just expressed my distaste in the fact that to support your opinion, you say things that are not true.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:36 pm

Kelly wrote:Intelligence has nothing to do with mental stability. Just sayin'.


Sure, but an intelligent person can easily obtain an mental health certificate. He knows what to say and what not to say.

I think that not only the shooter in Colorado should be punished but also the people who sold him the guns and the owners of the gun factory. They are responsible too.

The government failed too. How was it possible that a 24 year old could buy such a big arsenal without getting noticed? With all the guns and ammunition he had, you could equip a small army.

It's not only people getting killed on purpose by guns but how many accident happen every year too? Many children die because they 'played' with their parents gun.
And if there's a gun within reach, a small argument between partners can erupt in a murder with a gun.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 pm

Kelly wrote:Intelligence has nothing to do with mental stability. Just sayin'.


i'm living proof right here.

I think that not only the shooter in Colorado should be punished but also the people who sold him the guns and the owners of the gun factory. They are responsible too.


and everyone that plays a character on tv that shoots guns, and everyone in his family, and everyone that has ever talked about guns in a favorable light, and and and

i'm usually a supporter of guns, i really enjoy going to ranges, but it's impossible to argue that if they weren't so readily available, things like this latest incident couldn't happen. it's not easy to find ones way into the criminal underworld and buy guns illegally, you can't just ask around shady places and end up with a legit seller. so, maybe it's about time we control them a liiiiiittle bit more strictly.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby Kelly » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:50 pm

I'm absolute not for taking all guns away from people - but I don't think understand why reasonable people can be close minded to some forms of control. For heaven's sake, they outlawed lawn darts after a few kids got hit in the head, and we regulate car ownership to the nth degree.

As for the argument that an armed citizenry is protection from tyranny - Is there really anyone who thinks that having an AK in their house is going to protect them from the US military should it come down to that?
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby falconagain » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:00 pm

A guns are a necessary addition in everyday society life. For a person that knows how
to use it there is substitute. Any restriction will only harm those who know how to proper
use weapons instead of the criminals. Coming from a family where many of its members
worked for the military I have personally witnessed guns being used to protect lives and
maintain order in situations where there is no alternative.

Kelly wrote:As for the argument that an armed citizenry is protection from tyranny - Is there really anyone who thinks that having an AK in their house is going to protect them from the US military should it come down to that?


During the 1960s many Americans liked to travel to Africa for many reasons (leisure, business), all of them
carried weapons in the plane and were allowed to enter the African countries without much trouble. They lived
usually close to each other and were able to repel many attacks from African professional mercenaries without
any problem. The problem begun when the government started to restrict their access to weapons due to their
liberal policies of Africa only for black Africans. The situation for these people was so good during the early years that they actually discouraged the American government from intervening because they could handle
all problems by themselves.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby Kelly » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:00 pm

My comment has nothing to do with African policies; it's strictly in response to US gun policy, as evidenced by the part about protecting your home against an attack from the US military.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby falconagain » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:17 pm

My point was that Americans can learn to defend themselves against any enemy if
they are allowed the freedom of having the necessary tools to do so.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:30 pm

falconagain wrote:My point was that Americans can learn to defend themselves against any enemy if
they are allowed the freedom of having the necessary tools to do so.


Sure, but I think we have homeland defense pretty locked down. I'm all for letting people own a shotgun (best gun for home protection), hunting rifle, a pistol. But the fact of the matter is, if you were unable to walk into a gun store and and after a quick background check and brief waiting period come home with a car full of assault weaponry and tons of ammo, then when you decide to go postal it would be with one gun, or a knife, or your hands. If China is gearing up to invade, by all means i'm all for opening up the floodgates and letting everyone go on an assault weapon shopping spree. otherwise, again as much as i LOVE guns and shooting them, all kinds, it's a no-brainer really.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby americorps » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:08 pm

I am pretty much a Constitutionalist and since we keep talking US law, it is very clear in the Constitution when it talks about the right be bear arms... it very clearly states ..

as part of a WELL REGULATED militia.


Gun freedom fanatics seem to simply ignore that part of the Constitution.

Except for Chi Chi, I have seen no one here call for banning gun ownership, just debating the limits of what WELL REGULATED can look like.

And, as usual, there are extremists on either end. the ones who say there is no need for guns who are just as radical as the ones who say guns are necesiary even though there are more than 2 billion people in the world who have figured out how to function just fine without one.

Extremists tend to not ad value to a debate as much as they react more as religious fanatics with blind faith than they do as reasonable people evaluating all sides of an idea.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby craig » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:10 pm

You object to people supporting their views with falsehoods.

americorps wrote:I am pretty much a Constitutionalist and since we keep talking US law, it is very clear in the Constitution when it talks about the right be bear arms... it very clearly states ..

as part of a WELL REGULATED militia.

This is what the 2nd Amendment actually states:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Perhaps you think your revision makes no difference because of your interpretation of what it means.
Last edited by craig on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby falconagain » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:22 pm

It is a matter of personal choice. There is nothing wrong in having a gun and use properly.

Or we can do as other people say, "Let see who survives longer, I will use my gun and you
can use your pen"

Still, I have only used guns for an amount of less than 10 hours in my life, I see them as a
tool that is required for certain situations where other solutions are not the alternative.

Even if a person goes postal a gun is not the best way for him/her to blow off their steam.
Many of these people have applied methods that yielded more victims without requiring to
use any weapons like the unabomber. He used only over the counter products and the mail,
still he gave the government a great run for its money. The government solution, they could
not close all supermarkets and libraries which were the tools used. Safety is a relative term.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Even if a person goes postal a gun is not the best way for him/her to blow off their steam.


being that everyone has the option to go bigger and use large amounts of household items to blow things up, why don't they? why instead, is it that the majority of massacres involving mentally unstable people involve firearms, and more specifically, assault weaponry?

i came *this* close to buying an AK a few years back. I'm not anti gun in general. You simply can't argue that the ability for citizens to stockpile assault weaponry and ammunition does not help society. And as far as the whole "defending yourself from the government" conspiratard silliness, like Kelly alluded to, if they decdide to come at you in force, your couple of assault weapons might allow you to take one or two out before you die, at best. You're not going to be holding off SWAT or the national guard for more than a few hours at very best, so why be able to purchase them at all when they've been used to kill massive amounts of innocent people by psychopaths time and time again?
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:18 pm

renodante wrote:If China is gearing up to invade, by all means i'm all for opening up the floodgates and letting everyone go on an assault weapon shopping spree.


The Chinese don't need guns to invade, they use their brains. They take over the place by smart thinking and hard working.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:48 pm

renodante wrote: is it that the majority of massacres involving mentally unstable people involve firearms, and more specifically, assault weaponry?


The problem is that those people can't be intercepted before they carry out there plan. Allmost all of the people appeared normal. They are normal students or men with a family and children. Rarely they have been in trouble with the law before.
After those mass shooting neighboors, family members, colleages can only talk positive about that person. They can't believe it that their friend, colleague, relative commited such a horrible act.

Allmost all shootings happen in developed countries like US, Europe, Japan...

In less developed countries, family members look after each other. If someone has a problem he will get help and can talk about it.

In developed countries people find it hard to ask for help. People don't know their neighboors even after living for years next to them. People visit their family once a year only with christmas.

People who carried out those acts feel that nobody cares about them, they feel excluded from society and they see society as their worst enemy. They feel that everybody is agaist them so they randomly shoot people. It doesn't matter who they kill, everyone is their enemy. Many of them commit suicide because they feel there's no more place for them in this world and this is the end. The shooter in Colorado booby trapped his house. He knew he's wasn't going back anyway.

Those people just don't pick up a gun and start shooting. They for sure have tried to find a solution for their problems. They feel that society has destroyed their life and they want to make a point to 'everyone'. That's why they carefully prepare their plan.

We also might not forget that the relatives of the shooter are victims too. Those people feel guilt. They feel bad because they didn't check out if their relative was ok. The relatives get a life sentence. How can they ever get over it? Their questions is 'why did he do that?' Why didn't he ask us for help?
I feel sorry for the parents of the shooter in Colorado. What are those people going through?
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby falconagain » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:51 pm

chi chi wrote:
renodante wrote:If China is gearing up to invade, by all means i'm all for opening up the floodgates and letting everyone go on an assault weapon shopping spree.


The Chinese don't need guns to invade, they use their brains. They take over the place by smart thinking and hard working.


You have not watched the recent Chinese news. They say that they have the same weapons as America but bigger and better.


And if you look carefully all this unstable people are isolated cases. Things will simply escalate for them, if
you outlaw guns they will get creative and find other ways to express their aberrant behavior. They do not
need help but proper punishment and maybe some torture.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:06 pm

falconagain wrote:And if you look carefully all this unstable people are isolated cases. Things will simply escalate for them, if
you outlaw guns they will get creative and find other ways to express their aberrant behavior. They do not
need help but proper punishment and maybe some torture.


No, those people need help before they carry out their plan. People that carry out those plans don't do that because they want to but because they feel that they have to. Those people have for sure looked for solutions for their problems. This is just their last option.
Punishing and torturing those people isn't going to avoid such tragedies in the future. Most of those people want to die anyway. If the police shoots them, then that's what they wanted anyway. They succeeded.

Those mass shooters are victims too. They have been bullied, excluded and suffered a trauma that's leads them to carry out those horrible acts. They aren't hardened criminals. They are good students, hard working family men,...

Your brother, friend or colleage could be the next one that carries out such an act. Those people are like time bombs. They are silent but they could explode anytime. They are filled up with anger.

It's like a balloon. Fill it up with air...till it explodes. There's no way back.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:07 pm

You have not watched the recent Chinese news. They say that they have the same weapons as America but bigger and better.


Whatever they say, it's factually incorrect for one thing (china is still well behind us) and for another, completely irrelevant. I was being facetious, I could have picked "russia" or whoever, I just meant if we ever got invaded, open up the stores by all means.

And if you look carefully all this unstable people are isolated cases.


irrelevant. what IS relevant is those isolated cases bought weaponry that enabled them to easily kill dozens or more people and injure many others.

Things will simply escalate for them, ifyou outlaw guns they will get creative and find other ways to express their aberrant behavior.


i'm not talking about outlawing guns, i'm talking about outlawing assault weaponry and the ability to stockpile massive amounts of ammo in one shot.

They do not need help but proper punishment and maybe some torture.


um, ok..
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:16 pm

The last shooting has been spread out in the news all over the world. But there are many that rarely hit the news like the last one.
There are on average 20 of those tragedies a year in the US alone.

And for sure many more are coming. Someone else is brewing a plan to 'solve his problems with society.'

http://rt.com/usa/news/mass-year-people-massacre-710/
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:06 am

you know, thinking about it a bit more prohibition didn't do to well for alcohol so...well, something to think about.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby americorps » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:55 am

There is no such thing as a little more prohibition.

Prohibition is a ban

Regulation is not.

apples and oranges.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby fanning » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:58 am

More people get killed in Chigago, then in Kabul
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06/15/061512-news-chicago-murders-knowles-1-3/
Also more Americans shot eachother in the USA during the Vietnam war, then American soldiers died in Vietnam.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby Alan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:10 pm

With 270 million weapons already in circulation in the USA (9 guns for every 10 people), gun prohibition seems like a pretty moot point, and even regulation sounds an impossible dream.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/ ... 3820070828

Peru still has a chance to get a handle on the problem.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:29 pm

americorps wrote:There is no such thing as a little more prohibition.

Prohibition is a ban

Regulation is not.

apples and oranges.


this is true, this is true.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:39 pm

I am sure we all can agree that the world would be better of without guns.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby falconagain » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:58 am

Actually due to the recent violent events gun sales today are better than ever which
will guarantee for everyone a future with more gun owners than before. The Peruvian
government should allow its citizens to easily obtain guns for their own personal safety.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby chi chi » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:48 pm

falconagain wrote:Actually due to the recent violent events gun sales today are better than ever which
will guarantee for everyone a future with more gun owners than before.


...up to the next mass shooting. The more gun owners, the more brutal murders. Already more mass shootings happen in the US than in Iraq or Syria.


falconagain wrote:The Peruvian government should allow its citizens to easily obtain guns for their own personal safety.


Falconagain, the Peruvian government doesn't want people bursting into schools and murdering 100's of children.
And the Peruvian government wants people to go to the cine to see a movie and not to kill each other.

And if people can easily obtain guns then gringos won't be able to live or travel in Peru anymore because they will get killed for even a few soles.

There should be long prison sentences for possessing a gun. In Ireland, the UK, China and Japan there's very little gun crime. Simply because there are long prison sentences for gun possesion. In China even the death penalty.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby renodante » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:21 pm

The more gun owners, the more brutal murders. Already more mass shootings happen in the US than in Iraq or Syria


Almost every family in Iraq has an AK-47 and it's legal for them to have them. So if there were less mass shootings there, your argument just fell apart.
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Re: Gun Laws!

Postby americorps » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:29 pm

renodante wrote:
The more gun owners, the more brutal murders. Already more mass shootings happen in the US than in Iraq or Syria


Almost every family in Iraq has an AK-47 and it's legal for them to have them. So if there were less mass shootings there, your argument just fell apart.



nothing falls apart, like i said earlier, it is disingenuous to only pick and choose one country and ignore any and all evidence that is contrary to your opinion.

Cherry picked facts such as that are no different than out and out fabrications.

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