Do you feel danger when in the public now?

[gringolandia]

I don't feel safe here anymore, personally.

So many friends and family in Surco and La Molina, the two places I spend most of my time in Lima, have had their whole homes ransacked recently. And we've even had problems with drunk idiots waving guns around at the beach south of my beach house telling us rich folk to stay on our beach. Good times...

In a recent home invasion robbery in La Molina the thieves were overheard by the maid saying "if the family comes back shoot them." The family was only out to get some food so good thing the thieves were done and gone fast.

I went to the SITDEF gun show at the Pentagonito last week and made some good connections, so I'll be arranging for some increased safety shortly.

The comparisons to the US are a bit absurd I think. I feel perfectly safe walking around there. Granted, I don't spend much time in black neighborhoods. If I did my feelings of safety there might be a lot different. But the question was if *I* feel safe, and in the US I do. Actually too safe. I'd prefer a bit less safety and a bit more liberty.

[teamoperu]

It is much worse elsewhere:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/police-corruption/

That may or may not be true. The point is that a bunch of police robbing a restaurant is pretty bad and shocking.

Thinking more about, I'm thinking there have been corrupt police, well, ever since there has been police so I am not shocked at all it happens in Peru or anywhere.

[teamoperu]

I don't feel safe here anymore, personally.

So many friends and family in Surco and La Molina, the two places I spend most of my time in Lima, have had their whole homes ransacked recently. And we've even had problems with drunk idiots waving guns around at the beach south of my beach house telling us rich folk to stay on our beach. Good times...

In a recent home invasion robbery in La Molina the thieves were overheard by the maid saying "if the family comes back shoot them." The family was only out to get some food so good thing the thieves were done and gone fast.

I went to the SITDEF gun show at the Pentagonito last week and made some good connections, so I'll be arranging for some increased safety shortly.

The comparisons to the US are a bit absurd I think. I feel perfectly safe walking around there. Granted, I don't spend much time in black neighborhoods. If I did my feelings of safety there might be a lot different. But the question was if *I* feel safe, and in the US I do. Actually too safe. I'd prefer a bit less safety and a bit more liberty.

2,000,000 home burglaries are reported each year in the United States.
Every 13 seconds a home intrusion is committed.
85% of break-ins are from non-professionals that are usually more desperate and dangerous.

Yup, the USA is real safe LOL

http://www.safeguardtheworld.com/statistics.html

Home robberies in the USA are so prolific that millions of people... wait for it...

buy insurance!

[SilverbackPeru]

Global list of homicide rates per 100'000. I've checked several other more official sites but they all come in with roughly the same stats as Peru having a homicide rate twice that of the United States. Most European countries had a level of 1 per 100'000.

Other crimes that happen here that we won't see back home will include kidnapping (i'm not talking about express kidnappings). I couldn't find any stats for burglary but it will be harder here due to the fact that most homes have more protection than Fort Knox. There's a good reason for each street have a guard in the better to do areas. Theft however is a pretty common day to day thing it is sad to say. Police corruption happens everywhere, but is it maybe as open as in Peru as back home?

I'm not wanting to come across as being harsh on Peru, i generally feel very safe and there is less aggression in society i think than back home for things like fighting. I have never had any problems here, never had a bad word said to me once but i would be a fool to deny that violent crime happens here and i am warned by my in-laws that just because nothing has happened that doesnt mean it is safe. OK Peru isn't as safe as most (maybe all) western countries but it does very well compared to the rest of the Americas along with Chile and Uruguay. A bit of common and sense and you should be fine here.

Homicides per 100'000
Peru 9.6
USA 4.7
Canada 1.6
UK, France and Holland 1
Germany 0.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

[gringolandia]

You can quote whatever statistics you feel are important to you. That doesn't change the fact that I don't have a single friend or family member who has been a victim of crime in the US in years. Not one.

Whereas in Lima I know four people and two homes that have been victimized in just the past six months.

So my personal experience is that crime here in Lima is way beyond anything in the US.

[teamoperu]

You can quote whatever statistics you feel are important to you. That doesn't change the fact that I don't have a single friend or family member who has been a victim of crime in the US in years. Not one.

Whereas in Lima I know four people and two homes that have been victimized in just the past six months.

So my personal experience is that crime here in Lima is way beyond anything in the US.

Your personal experience is valid only for you, Charlie Brown with the cloud over your head. I have been robbed many more times in my home country than in Peru. My experience: In home country, 2 house break ins, 4 car breakins, 1 bike snatching and my home country is safer than the USA. Haven't been murdered there yet. In Peru, 1 cell phone snatch, no breakins, no violence. Oh yeah, they stole a potted plant outside my business once.

[KenBE]

Your personal experience is valid only for you, Charlie Brown with the cloud over your head. I have been robbed many more times in my home country than in Peru. My experience: In home country, 2 house break ins, 4 car breakins, 1 bike snatching and my home country is safer than the USA. Haven't been murdered there yet. In Peru, 1 cell phone snatch, no breakins, no violence. Oh yeah, they stole a potted plant outside my business once.

Teamoperu, how many of the Peruvians you know personally have been robbed? I am willing to bet money that you know lots. And if you tell me you don't I won't believe you .

Here is what I have personally seen in Peru (Trujillo):

-1 woman getting robbed by a gang of armed choros right in front of my apartment. They followed her from an ATM machine.
-Several purse/cell phone snatchings (saw about 3 myself)
.Girlfriend got express-kidnapped (and was beaten) in a taxi
-Girlfriend was robbed at gunpoint at least 3 times
-The bakery in my neighborhood in Trujillo (Santa Ines, a middle class area) was robbed at gunpoint, so was the mini-market.
-The Rustica restaurant where I used to go in Trujillo was robbed at gunpoint.
http://noticiasenunclic.blogspot.be/201 ... stica.html
-Girfriend´s brother was robbed in a taxi
-Saw an ATM machine covered in blood once in Chimbote (wonder what happened there?).
-Several burglaries in my apartment building.
-People where shot in the discoteca La Barra in Trujillo when I lived there (I used to go there a lot).
http://diariocorreo.pe/ciudad/balacera- ... os-191945/
-Girlfriend's father's home was robbed by an armed gang.
-Even in the mall (Aventura Plaza) that I used to visit all the time (and I always felt was safe) in Trujillo there has been a robbery (where the choros hit someone with their car).
http://www.rpp.com.pe/2014-03-31-trujil ... 80868.html
-My tour guide in Arequipa told me he had been robbed in a taxi.
-The guy who installed my Directv told me he had been robbed in a taxi (jumped by two choros).
-A taxi driver told me choros go into his car once, pointed a gun at him and took his taxi.
.Buses from Trujillo to Chimbote (I used to take these buses a lot) where robbed several times while I lived there.
http://diariocorreo.pe/ciudad/asaltan-a ... us-525432/

These are just some of the ones I remember, there is more.

So no, I don't need statistics to tell me that crime in Peru is very high, at least in the places where I lived. Again, not trying to badmouth Peru (I love Peru) but these are my experiences. And this doesn't mean you can't live in or visit Peru and be safe, you just have to be aware of the reality and take precautions.

Just to add a positive comment too: I was never robbed myself.

[teamoperu]

You have never been robbed. That's my point. All these stories about others. I believe to be Peruvian in Peru is far more dangerous than to be a gringo in Peru. Sure, I can ryhme off a list of friends (or third party heresay) I've heard about robberies, lots of them. In Peru AND my home country. Both places. Other than a cell phone snatch when I was a newbie, just like you, other than that years ago, I have not been robbed in Peru. I can ryhme off all the robberies I endured, and family and friends too, that happened in my home country. More than Peru. Of course, I take smart precautions. In my home country and Peru. For every example you can provide about robberies you know in Peru I can give you one about robberies in my home country.... from personal knowledge. People seem to have selective vision.

I am far more likely to die from cancer in Peru than been killed in an armed robbery in Peru, thats for sure.

Tell me, you have not been robbed in Peru. Were you or family ever robbed in your home country... tell the truth.

[KenBE]

Tell me, you have not been robbed in Peru. Were you or family ever robbed in your home country... tell the truth.

Nope, never been robbed. My mother had her bike stolen once and my aunt's home has been burglarised. But I don't know ANYONE who has been robbed at gunpoint or express-kidnapped like many Peruvians I know. Yes, there is crime here too (just like everywhere else). But robberies are far more common in Peru, at least in the big cities (not talking about remote villages in la Sierra). That is obvious to me after having lived there for 6 years. Can I prove it? No. It is just my opinion based on having lived in Nuevo Chimbote and Trujillo for 6 years. Anyone reading this can choose to believe me or not.

This is actually one of the few things I don't like about Peru: the high crime levels. Other than that, I love the country and miss it a lot now that I am no longer there.

[teamoperu]

Well, I have been robbed multiple times. My sister has been robbed. My brother has been robbed. All in my home country. I know people in Peru who have never been robbed (yes, in the Sierras).

[KenBE]

I know people in Peru who have never been robbed (yes, in the Sierras).

Yes, I have heard that there is a lot less crime in la Sierra. My girlfriend's family was from the northern Sierra and they used to say "En la sierra no hay choros". Most crime happens in the cities on the coast.

[gringolandia]

Your personal experience is valid only for you, Charlie Brown with the cloud over your head.

You do see that this thread is "Do you feel danger when in the public now?", right?

So the fact that my personal experience is valid only for me is exactly what makes my post relevant to the topic. This is a subjective question and I gave a subjective answer.

I answer the question YES, and I am taking appropriate steps based on that. You certainly can answer the question differently from your own subjective view.

To attempt to answer the question objectively instead of subjectively (ie whether or not there really is significant danger) may be impossible as the level of danger faced by each person likely depends on factors that are specific to individuals (where you spend your time, what times you wander around in public, if you dress nicely or otherwise look wealthy, how careful you are, etc.).

However, that being said, I think the statistics at least show that the objective level of danger as measured by crime has increased significantly in Lima over the past few years. On a perhaps not entirely unrelated note, subjectively I did feel fairly safe here in 2006 when I visited Lima for the first time, but as of now I no longer do.

[teamoperu]

Your personal experience is valid only for you, Charlie Brown with the cloud over your head.

You do see that this thread is "Do you feel danger when in the public now?", right?

So the fact that my personal experience is valid only for me is exactly what makes my post relevant to the topic. This is a subjective question and I gave a subjective answer.

I answer the question YES, and I am taking appropriate steps based on that. You certainly can answer the question differently from your own subjective view.

To attempt to answer the question objectively instead of subjectively (ie whether or not there really is significant danger) may be impossible as the level of danger faced by each person likely depends on factors that are specific to individuals (where you spend your time, what times you wander around in public, if you dress nicely or otherwise look wealthy, how careful you are, etc.).

However, that being said, I think the statistics at least show that the objective level of danger as measured by crime has increased significantly in Lima over the past few years. On a perhaps not entirely unrelated note, subjectively I did feel fairly safe here in 2006 when I visited Lima for the first time, but as of now I no longer do.

Yup, I know the thread title. Yup, it is how you feel. No problem.

For fun, lets explore this a little?

If the thread asked about how people feel about spiders, someone with arachnophobia would say they feel afraid of spiders and run away from them and they are as bad or worse than before. They would not be right about the real world situation, just right about how they feel. The real situation is that, with rare exceptions, there is nothing to fear about spiders. Indeed, they should fear us, not the other way around. Squish squish the little spider.

Or a germaphobic might write on a thread that all McDonalds washrooms are terrible. Thats the way feel, but they well not be right. Or that there are handprints near on/off wall light switches. Yuck.

Now if the thread asks about how people feel about robberies, someone with harpaxophopia (fear of being robbed) would say they are fearful of this, it is terrible, they are fearful all the time of being robbed and things are getting worse.

I am not saying you are harpaxophobic, how would I know, and certainly I am not accusing you of that. But who knows?

Of course these phobias range from 0% to full on 100%. Many people might fall halfway with only mild harpaxophobic tendencies. A harpaxophobic person may even act to arm oneself to the teeth like some amateur Rambo with guns and pepper spray prepared to fight to death like a real man to protect the honour of their cell phone and make excuses that they are protecting their property and their loved ones when just handing over a replaceable insurable phone would be the wiser choice for all non-phobic rational people.

I do know harpaxophobia is alive and living amongst us. I do not know the frequency of occurrence.

[gringolandia]

I'm not even going to read your entire post as it sounds trollish from the very beginning. Have fun exploring it on your own.

[teamoperu]

I'm not even going to read your entire post as it sounds trollish from the very beginning. Have fun exploring it on your own.

Ah, but you did read the entire post. No answer was needed, but yet you decided to answer, however dishonestly. And name call the messager instead of addressing the message. And worse, suggest sulking and putting your head in the sand and not listen. What admirable way of displaying your fine-tuned debating skills and presenting your point of view... not. A losing strategy at best.

You do not need to reply, but if you do please do it honestly.

[gringolandia]

I really didn't read your whole post, and since you are clearly an attention seeking troll I have added you to my ignore list so I don't have to read any of your nonsense (except when others quote you).

[teamoperu]

I really didn't read your whole post, and since you are clearly an attention seeking troll I have added you to my ignore list so I don't have to read any of your nonsense (except when others quote you).

Sure OK blocking and name calling doesn't bother me - just don't shoot the messenger.

[windsportinperu]

I feel safe in Peru

But sometimes I feel unsafe here at this forum, specially when with no reason, people begins to fight each other..

[ironchefchris]

Came across this article today. It'll most likely resonate with those who view the subject objectively rather than subjectively, though I'm not suggesting thinking/feeling one way is any more valid than the other. Interesting to note where Peru and the USA wind up on the list. First link is the article, second is the organization which it references, last is the map with rankings if you want to cut to the chase.

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-result ... 22177.html

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/ ... eace-index

http://static.visionofhumanity.org/site ... %20Map.pdf

[teamoperu]

Came across this article today. It'll most likely resonate with those who view the subject objectively rather than subjectively, though I'm not suggesting thinking/feeling one way is any more valid than the other. Interesting to note where Peru and the USA wind up on the list. First link is the article, second is the organization which it references, last is the map with rankings if you want to cut to the chase.

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-result ... 22177.html

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/ ... eace-index

http://static.visionofhumanity.org/site ... %20Map.pdf

I'll say it. Objectives measures, though none are perfect, are far superior to subjective measures if you are seeking the truth.

In this case, Peru is about the same as USA. (technically Peru ranks 92 and USA 94, so Peru slightly more peaceful.)

[gringito]

Enjoy your Ceviche!

http://arrobaradio.pe/tres-delincuentes ... iraflores/

[teamoperu]

Enjoy your Sub!

http://www.wdsu.com/news/local-news/new ... t/30677016

[gringito]

http://trome.pe/actualidad/independenci ... os-2053434

http://trome.pe/actualidad/san-borja-en ... ia-2054102

http://trome.pe/actualidad/victoria-emp ... do-2053424

http://trome.pe/actualidad/comas-adoles ... bo-2053146

http://trome.pe/actualidad/ate-vitarte- ... go-2052858

PS:
@teamoperu: we are still living in Lima/Peru....
It does not make much sense to belittle the crime problem in Lima / Peru by referring to crimes in other countries.

[windsportinperu]

Searching and linking bad news about USA and Canada could be offensive for expats who live in Peru.

Searching and linking bad news about Peru is offensive for me..

Let''s see this World from a positive point of view..

[louis]

In January I remember reading some newspaper where extortion of bussinesses in Lima had increased by 50% over the same period from a year earlier. I don't remember which newspaper it was, but if that article is even remotely true, it would represent a massive increase in crime.

[asgp]

Well........ The crime has raised, mainly in the VAST majority of districts in Lima, maybe Miraflores, Barranco and San Isidro scape this situation because of the tourism industry that lives there, police knows this and they won't allow crime go deeper there.

I feel more danger than I did 2-3 years ago, that's for sure.

[gringito]

Searching and linking bad news about USA and Canada could be offensive for expats who live in Peru.
Searching and linking bad news about Peru is offensive for me..
Let''s see this World from a positive point of view..

You have a strange attitude to offense....
I would simply call it Peru forum and US/Canada forum...

Being positive is nice....but if you already feel so offended in times of peace...how will you react in front of the thug?
"Hey man, don´t worry, be happy"?
Or the tipical Peruvian "No te preocupes"???

In January I remember reading some newspaper where extortion of bussinesses in Lima had increased by 50% over the same period from a year earlier. I don't remember which newspaper it was, but if that article is even remotely true, it would represent a massive increase in crime.

Extorsions in which the criminals employ explosives (incl. military grenades) in order to add authority to their demands increased.

Well........ The crime has raised, mainly in the VAST majority of districts in Lima, maybe Miraflores, Barranco and San Isidro scape this situation because of the tourism industry that lives there, police knows this and they won't allow crime go deeper there.

Police, in particular the corrupt police, already allowed that it increased during the last years.

Anyway, Ollanta is governing now on the basis of emergency laws granted by the Peruvian Parliament some weeks ago, and security is one major issues. However, I do not belief that this will change something.

Surprisingly, in countries where the police is not corrupt, criminality is also quite low.

[KenBE]

Here is an interesting article about safety in Latin America that talks about how safe people feel, how often they have been robbed and how much they trust the police.

Residents of Latin America and the Caribbean were the least likely among all global regions last year to feel secure in their communities. In 2013, the region scored a 56 (on a scale from 0 to 100) on Gallup's Law and Order Index, which is based on confidence in local police, feelings of personal safety, and self-reported incidence of theft.

Peru seems to be very low on their list (which means people feel unsafe). What surprises me is that Ecuador seems to have become much safer in the last 5 years or so (now among the safest countries of the region). Venezuela is last (not surprising).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/175082/latin ... urity.aspx

[windsportinperu]

The robbery with the title “enjoy your ceviche” was a lack of respect and therefore was offensive

Let’s try to see our World from the bright sight.

[ironchefchris]

To some, the glass is always half full.

To others, half empty.

To an engineer, the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.

[windsportinperu]

To some, the glass is always half full.

To others, half empty.

To an engineer, the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.

Cheers with a glass full of beer..

btw, I like engineering..

[gringito]

The robbery with the title “enjoy your ceviche” was a lack of respect and therefore was offensive

1)
Lack of respect vis-à-vis whom/what?

2)
Is it possible
A) that you do not understand irony?
B) that (I ask this with all my respect and without irony...) your self-esteem and/your self-control are low - because this is usually the reason why people feel offended for trivial reasons?

Let’s try to see our World from the bright sight.

Let’s try not to be naive and close our eyes in view of reality....

[windsportinperu]

Gringito...

Please do not overreact.. the 2 options a. and b. are wrong..

Option c) relax and forget it..

[ironchefchris]

Gringito,

Solely out of curiosity and with no disrespect intended, why is it that you continue to live in Peru if you feel it so dangerous and safety is such an important issue to you? I'm assuming that as an expat you are here voluntarily and not in the position of a poor Peruana without the means to move to a place you feel would be safer, but I don't want to make any assumptions past that as to why you continue to stay.

If you don't feel safe here why haven't you moved to a country where you do feel safe, such as one of those countries deemed safer in the link I posted further up thread? There comes a time when if one isn't happy with their life or surroundings they do everything with in their power to change their situation, up to and including changing their location. It's like moving next to a waste landfill, complaining about the smell, and when complaining doesn't make the smell go away one either learns to live with it or moves to a rosier location.

[gringito]

Gringito...
Please do not overreact.. the 2 options a. and b. are wrong..
Option c) relax and forget it..

3)
Why do you consider it an "overreaction"? You make many assertions, but if someone deals with it, you retreat.

4)
Maybe you feel capable of answering my above mentioned question 1)?

Thanks.

[gringito]

@ironchefchris:
I will prepare an answer to your question, hoever, now they throw me out of the cabinas internet.
I hope I will post it tomorrow or so.

[windsportinperu]

The thread topic is feeling safe vs unsafe in Peru.. not the overreaction of Gringito...

Let's go on with the thread topic ...

[windsportinperu]

Gringito,

I was running away from writing this message to you, because I always run away from negative problems and fruitless discusions.

I still have some doubts about to write this or not, but as you request a question about my point of view, here it is..

You have made a very good participation in this forum, and I personally want you to continue in this thread and this forum. You are intelligent and well-informed, but as nobody is perfect, we could make a mistake.

Peru and peruvians are very proud of their culinary tradition. All I told you was that from my point of view, as peruvian, your permanent links about crimes in Peru were a lack of respect. It was totally unnecesary. Nothing more than that.

Someone could make a mistake and the more respectul about any country or culture you are living, the better chances to success in life.

In Peru crimes and robberies are common, but it is also needed to grow a positive attitude in front of the bad news and media. Always the written media, promote the morbidity through their manipulated information. Trome and some others bad-media in Peru are among them.

I feel safe in Peru, not because I trust in the Police. I feel safe because I have a positive attitude in front of the robberies. Fortunately have never been robbed, but also maintain a low profile about my wealth and life.

Problems in life are made to get over them

Let see our World from the bright sight..

[leosmutter]

Fortunately have never been robbed, but also maintain a low profile about my wealth and life.

Exactly. I've never been robbed, too, but damn, i like to wear a nice watch or use a nice cellphone without thinking about it. I can't do that in Peru. If i ever have an accident, i don't want to worry if i get to hospital in time (Have you ever seen an ambulance trying to get through traffic in Lima?). There are nice things in Peru, but for me it's a place i just stay for a period of time and then go back to my homecountry (it's maybe not 100% safe there either, but i never ever worried about getting robbed).

This is my personal point of view.

[KenBE]

I just saw this on Youtube:

Cineplanet movie theater near the Plaza de Armas in Trujillo robbed:





I just wanted to post this because I know this movie theater very well and used to go there a lot when I lived in Trujillo. It seems like almost every business that I know of in that city has been robbed now I love Trujillo but crime is really getting out of hand there.

[ironchefchris]

Have they started shooting up movie theaters yet?

[KenBE]

Have they started shooting up movie theaters yet?

Maybe they haven't started shooting up movie theaters yet, but they have started shooting up discotecas:

First time (2010):
http://diariocorreo.pe/ciudad/balacera- ... os-191945/

Second time (2012):


That is twice in the same place Been to that disco lots of times myself as well btw.

Anyway, enough horror stories for today

[teamoperu]

2010??? Here is one just a few days ago in Palm Beach USA:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm- ... story.html

[KenBE]

2010???

The robbery happened yesterday actually...

27 de Julio del 2015 - 09:53

http://diariocorreo.pe/edicion/la-liber ... et-605499/

The shootings happened in 2010-2012.

[ironchefchris]

It sucks that discos get shot up. It seems more common than movie theaters, probably because of the alcohol and cocaine consumption that doesn't really happen in movie theaters where being drunk and coked up when you're encouraged to be quiet and still don't really go together.

[KenBE]

It sucks that discos get shot up. It seems more common than movie theaters, probably because of the alcohol and cocaine consumption that doesn't really happen in movie theaters where being drunk and coked up when you're encouraged to be quiet and still don't really go together.

That disco wasn't that bad actually. You even saw older people there sometimes, just celebrating birthdays, etc. I never really felt unsafe when I went there. Here is a video that shows what it was like:



Cumbia concert in La Barra:

[teamoperu]

2010???

The robbery happened yesterday actually...

27 de Julio del 2015 - 09:53

The shootings happened in 2010-2012.

Yes, you posted shootings 2010-2012. Back when I was a baby

[gringito]

@admin
Interesting....The day before yesterday I posted an answer in this thread....and yesterday another one. Meanwhile other users posted.

All these inputs disappeared.

Is you database corrupted?

PS:
As far as I can see even complete threads which were visible yesterday disappeared completly!

[adrian Thorne]

@admin
Interesting....The day before yesterday I posted an answer in this thread....and yesterday another one. Meanwhile other users posted.

All these inputs disappeared.

Is you database corrupted?

PS:
As far as I can see even complete threads which were visible yesterday disappeared completly!

A little off topic, but much appreciated and being dealt with.

Best.

[gringito]

Maybe this is the solution...
Seen in a FB-thread of RPP noticias.

Some villages in the Sierra handle it precisely this way.