Changes to tourist visa?

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KenBE
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Changes to tourist visa?

Postby KenBE » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:50 pm

My girlfriend went to the immigrations office in Chimbote and they told her that there is a new law that says you can no longer get extensions for your tourist visa. They will now give you up to 180 days when you first enter the country but you can not get the extensions like before.

I have been looking on the internet to confirm this but I can´t find anything. I am a bit sceptical, maybe this guy is just making this up. Has anyone else heard about this?


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alyscamps1
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Postby alyscamps1 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:03 pm

sounds strange and web site of Digemin is still the same
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Postby naturegirl » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:29 pm

I think he's mmaking it up and more than likely in order to get these "180 days", you will have to pay a bribe.
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Postby cwcdavid » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:31 pm

This would be very nice if true though. :lol:

Maybe they've been listening to the likes of me on how I would take holiday-trips out of LIma in Peru whilst living there 6 months of the year if they didn't force me to do visa runs to another country.

In fact the overstay - pay at border is so easy I always end up doing that but I'm still uncomfortable with being on overstay. Last time I ended up doing a visa run a short time before leaving so I could sign for an apartment purchase.
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Postby naturegirl » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:14 am

I'd rather not pay a bribe. If you do then they will expect gringos who come after you to pay as well.
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Postby Jimmy111 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:21 am

Yes, this is true. If you entered before June 27 it is the same as bafore and you can get 3 renewals. If after they can give you up to 180 days. It doesent mean you will get 180 days. they may only give you 30 days if the agent wants to. Since July 1, all the inspectors at the airport are police now and not the immigrations inspectors that they had before. There are no more renewals with this new visa.
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Arroz con Pollo
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Postby Arroz con Pollo » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:05 pm

Are the new police being hard on people with 20+ tourist visa's like I have? Typically I can just say I love Peru and get 90 days but police don't usually have a sense of humor.

What do those of you like me with pages upon pages of tourist stamps usually use as your excuse?
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Postby Jimmy111 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:08 pm

I have the same problem. They only gave me 30 days even thou I had a return ticket for 180 days later and my wife and daughter are both Peruvians.... Looks like it is time to get the Foreign Carnet...
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Postby Kelly » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:10 pm

Before I got my carnet, I always told them I needed max days because I was working on my wedding.
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Postby sbaustin » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:25 pm

Does anyone have a full list or know of a we page that lists all the institutions in which one could enroll to get a student visa? This almost seems like a better route than the constant renewal of a tourist visa...

On my last trip I only got 60 days back in. It is just so random.

Lastly, if unfortunately you lose your passport, you'll get a new one without all the stamps. Fortunately mine expires soon, so I'll be stamp free on my next entry!
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Postby Arroz con Pollo » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:08 pm

sbaustin wrote:Does anyone have a full list or know of a we page that lists all the institutions in which one could enroll to get a student visa? This almost seems like a better route than the constant renewal of a tourist visa...


From Naturegirl's blog:
Naturegirl wrote:Student Visa
Student visas are loopholes that many people use to stay here. You are allowed to spend a year in Peru. All you need to do is study Spanish at a language institute accredited by the Ministry of Education, for example, ICPNA. You need F007, to pay 27 soles to process the form, a copy of your passport, proof that you are enrolled at a language school studying Spanish, proof that you have paid the tuition, and proof that you have enough money to live on (usually 2500 USD).


And from DIGEMIN http://www.digemin.gob.pe/inm_sv_mostrar.asp
Estudiante
Además de los consignados en los requisitos generales, presentará:
* Constancia de matrícula expedida por el titular del centro educativo con reconocimiento oficial refrendado por la autoridad competente o constancia de la entidad donde realizará prácticas preprofesionales o especialización.
* Documento que acredite o garantice el pago de los costos de estadía y educación.
* Documento que acredite el consentimiento de los padres o tutores, cuando se trate del caso de menor de edad, debidamente autenticado por Consulado Peruano y legalizado por el Ministerio de RREE.



I might just investigate this. Can anyone share their experience with getting a student visa? And how does one prove they have $2500 USD? Do I bring a bag of cash?
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Postby sbaustin » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:44 pm

Better yet, we just need someone at the school to validate our registration for maybe a fee.... Hmmmmmmmm
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KenBE
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Postby KenBE » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:03 am

Yes, this is true. If you entered before June 27 it is the same as bafore and you can get 3 renewals. If after they can give you up to 180 days. It doesent mean you will get 180 days. they may only give you 30 days if the agent wants to. Since July 1, all the inspectors at the airport are police now and not the immigrations inspectors that they had before. There are no more renewals with this new visa.

Hm..so it is true then. Time to get married then I guess LOL. Jimmy, do you know if you can still pay the $1 per day fine or is has this changed too?
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Postby cwcdavid » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:00 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:Yes, this is true. If you entered before June 27 it is the same as bafore and you can get 3 renewals. If after they can give you up to 180 days. It doesent mean you will get 180 days. they may only give you 30 days if the agent wants to. Since July 1, all the inspectors at the airport are police now and not the immigrations inspectors that they had before. There are no more renewals with this new visa.

...

I have the same problem. They only gave me 30 days even thou I had a return ticket for 180 days later and my wife and daughter are both Peruvians.... Looks like it is time to get the Foreign Carnet...


Do you still fill in how many days you want on the TAM card? and if so what did you write? Did the guy ask anything?

It was always true they *could* give you less and the old form just asked how many days do you plan to stay ... I don't think it said what the maximum possible was, you just had to write 90 days and hope for the best.

I only remember having any discussion when at the land border with Chile - was doing a border run without even going to arica. He eventually gave 90 days after determining I had a foreign income. I have the impression they are most interested in checking for working without a permit.

Anyone have a link for the new rules?
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Postby Jimmy111 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:44 pm

He did not ask me a thing. I dont even think he spoke english... He passed my passport thru the scanner looked at the screen and stamped it 30days. Took a total of 15 seconds. Did not ask me a thing. When I complained, he just gave me a dirty look and pointed at the exit....
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Postby cwcdavid » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:21 pm

Thanks, Jimmy.

So they now have a stamp which says 30 days? - they used to scribble 90 (or less) on top of a stamp.

That makes it sound like you always get 30 :cry:

Wonder if t helps to speak spanish - smile sweetly - ask politely - beg - whatever? The way you describe it 30 is what you can expect as standrad .... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Anyone else enter since 1st July as a tourist?
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Postby NWernerAtHeart » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:09 pm

I came in on July 7th and asked politely in Spanish if I could get 90 days and that's what I got...scribbled on top of my stamp. So, that's still possible at least.
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Postby naturegirl » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:57 pm

YOu probably get 30 if you have tons of Peru stamps in your passport.
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Postby NWernerAtHeart » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:10 pm

Yeah, that definitely makes sense, but the guy gave me my entry stamp on a page that had nothing but Peru stamps so who knows...granted, none of them were extremely long stays... and I may have been too worried about NOT getting the 90 days to notice but he didn't really seem to look at that either. When I asked for 90 he seemed very, "Sure, doesn't matter to me..." about it.
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Postby mammalu » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:21 pm

naturegirl wrote:YOu probably get 30 if you have tons of Peru stamps in your passport.


My US passport(s) have been always full of Peru stamps, as I used to travel many times a year to Lima. Sometimes I got 60 days, sometimes I got 90, depends on the person's mood I believe.

HUmm on the other hand, I alsays come with a big smile, ask them how is the weather, etc, in Spanish.
Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong." ! Abraham Lincoln
karinita

Postby karinita » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:42 pm

mammalu wrote:
HUmm on the other hand, I alsays come with a big smile, ask them how is the weather, etc, in Spanish.


Yes always SMILE everyone! SMiling is one of the secrets to a successful & happy life you know. If you want things to work out better for you in life just smile, it's that simple.......here's a smile from me to you :D
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Postby americorps » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:25 pm

This is the second false alarm about changes in immigration in a month. I went today and got my 30 day extension without problem.

I would suggest that when someone hears something...even as serious as the OP found out in a migraciones office, that they check with the central office in Lima for official word before posting changes.

I understand and appreciate KenBe would have every reason to believe that they knew what they were doing and were being honest in the office where he went, but it appears this rumor, like the previous, is not true.

The facts I got from my friend at migraciones is that they are getting more strict about things because of complaints about coima at the border, but the rules have not changes.
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Postby Jimmy111 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:44 am

Yes they have. I went to migrations myself and what I said is completly correct. They even showed me the new law and told me it took effect June 27. The general workers there have no Idea what is going on. You need to ask for the supervisor.
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Postby mammalu » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:42 am

Jimmy111 wrote:Yes they have. I went to migrations myself and what I said is completly correct. They even showed me the new law and told me it took effect June 27. The general workers there have no Idea what is going on. You need to ask for the supervisor.


This is serious. I will have to search in El Peruano under Normas Legislativas (anyone can help?). The version I can access is only online and limited. Before implementing a law or modification, it must be published in El Peruano. Usually they do it 30 days before it becomes effective.
:cry: !
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Postby naturegirl » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:44 am

Jimmy111 wrote:Yes they have. I went to migrations myself and what I said is completly correct. They even showed me the new law and told me it took effect June 27. The general workers there have no Idea what is going on. You need to ask for the supervisor.


What is the new law anyway? And all the better if the general workers don't know the new law :)
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changes?

Postby gabyespinosa » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:06 pm

My husband and stepdaughter had to get their tourist visa extension today and since they arrived on May 17th, 2008 apparently the changes to the law didn't apply to them but if you check out the info in this link you can see it states that there have been some changes:

Turista
Además de los consignados en los requisitos generales:
* Les corresponde dos prórrogas hasta por 30 días cada una y excepcionalmente hasta treinta (30) días por una tercera vez dentro de un año calendario.
* Los nacionales y residentes extranjeros de los países miembros de la Comunidad
Andina presentarán el documento nacional de identificación reconocido en la Decisión N° 503 o por convenio Bilateral con el que ingresaron al país en reemplazo del pasaporte y les corresponde una sola prórroga por un período de hasta 90 días.
NOTA:
*Solo para aquellos que ingresaron hasta el 26 de junio del 2008.


http://www.digemin.gob.pe/inm_pp_mostrar.asp

The only minor glitch we encountered was that while my husband's passport stated 60 days entrance their computerized system only had it down for 30 days and we had to patiently explain (again and again) that we could not have known that it was only 30 days if the passport and migration card (TAM) both said 60 days.

After telling us a few times that the info in their 'system' was the one that counted she finally relented to change it when she checked my stepdaughter's passport and saw that hers also stated 60 days. Ah, the joys of peruvian burocracy where common sense is sincerely lacking.

Fortunately it was quickly resolved (at least compared to what I remember of Peruvian burocracy 10 years ago) and we were even told that the next time we went to extend the visa we could get 2 months, I thought it was only a month by month extension but that is good news for us, maybe having my 22 month old baby helped us out.

Hope we can figure out what is happening with those that came in after this date, I guess time will tell because it is hard to get a straight clear answer from anybody in Migraciones.
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Postby KenBE » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:31 pm

My girlfriend called Migraciones in Lima today. They confirmed that the law has indeed changed. No more extensions :( I just hope they give me 180 days when I enter next week...
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Postby naturegirl » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:43 pm

So does that mean that you get 90 days upon entry and then get get two extensions, total time would be 150 days?

Then after that, what happens? Can you just border hop?
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Postby Jimmy111 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:49 pm

It means that if they give you 90 days, you get 90 days... If they give you 30 days you get 30 days. I sure you can border hop but who is to know what they will give you there. another 30 days? It is going to be a pain for some..
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Postby naturegirl » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:24 pm

It could be worse, they could just give you 180 days out of the year and enforce that.
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Postby cwcdavid » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:50 pm

naturegirl wrote:It could be worse, they could just give you 180 days out of the year and enforce that.


Would make a great deal of sense for them to do that and make their job easier.

Anyone on a tourist visa need then pay tax only on Peruvian income which should be none or only investment income since working is not allowed on a tourist visa.

Anyone staying longer than 180 days will become due to pay tax on worldwide income (since last year's rule change) and since they would be forced to change to a non-tourist visa, there would always be some extra examination of their affairs.

Rule changes on foreigners tax and visas seem to be one a year. Anyone know what next yesr's change will be and where we should watch to know about what is proposed before it has actually happenned?
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Postby naturegirl » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:05 pm

But there inlays the problem. Do you think that people on tourist visa, who legally can't work, would pay taxes, therefore admitting that they're working?

And worldwide income is really hard to track.
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Postby cwcdavid » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:35 am

naturegirl wrote:But there inlays the problem. Do you think that people on tourist visa, who legally can't work, would pay taxes, therefore admitting that they're working?


My point wasn't about getting tourists to admit anything, just making it much more difficult to work (and skip taxes) on a tourist visa.

It doesn't make sense to chase tourists for taxes because there are too many of them and only a small % who are actually working. There are increasing numbers of people who have enough unearned income to live some months in other countries. Including many in their 40s and even 30s.

Restricting tourists to 180 days a year would not affect any real tourists but make life much more difficult for those living year round and working in Peru. Their easiest option will then be to get a differrent visa and present themselves for scrutiny.

In my experience so far, Peru gets this more right than other nations. The rules for tourists still allow those with foreign investment income to stay long periods in Peru. The border people who question you want to know where your income comes from. If they are happy with the explanation, you can use the generous system. Hoping that means they will give me 180 days next time.

Other countries have slowly increased restrictions on tourist visas when what they actually wanted was to catch people working (teachers) without any proper paperwork. But they then make life more difficuly for those with foreign income who just live some months in that country. This doesn't make sense.


naturegirl wrote:And worldwide income is really hard to track.


Well this is a point constantly made on this board. I think it's undesirable to say it without always adding that evading tax is a crime that can land you in jail. Regardless of whether you agree with that or not. It's just not kind to suggest to people that they can do things that will get them in deep poop.

Anyway, yes hard to track but not impossible and getting easier as time goes by.

I think it is more interesting fact for people who have a second additional income which they choose to (illegally) evade paying the Peruvian tax on. It's a personal choice whether you want to live this way or not. There are many countries where tax evasion can land you in jail.

For those who don't work in Peru but have foreign income, the much more intersting option is (legal) avoidance. I.e. finding out what the rules are and staying within them. If you only want to stay part of the year in Peru, the easiest way is never exceed 180 days in a year. No risk of jail that way. :D
Website thats been mentioned here before about that is www.offshoreharry.com


Anyway sorry sorry for taking this thread in another direction.

Anyone have experience of the new stamps in the airport - especially if you get 180 days, please tell.

Also anyone know if the fine for overstay system has stayed the same (assuming they don't give you 180 days) that would be great to know too.
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Visas

Postby Dan Bonenberger » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:00 am

NG and CWC, This new limiting visas to 30 days is nothing new,it has taken affect in Panama.As Panama's economy started booming many illegals made Panama there destination. This sudden increase placed strains on the country.This rule however backfired, because many people from outside Panama were buying condos and spending big bucks. My friends in Panama stated it was easy to get it renewed, but who wants to put up with the paperwork. I think as Peru's economy continues to grow the government wants to assure that Peruvians get the full benefits. I have seen many countries, Australia, Mexico, Panama to name a few limit immigration. For most Expats it seems we will either pay more to live in Peru or limit our stays... Really sad , because I think most bring more with them to Peru than take from Peru. Take Care Dan
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